Uncensored Money Season Five: 3 Things You Should Be Stopping, Starting & Continuing When It Comes To Your Money.
Melissa Browne: Ex-Accountant, Ex-Financial Advisor, Ex-Working Till I Drop, Now Serial Entrepreneur & Author, Financial Wellness Advocate, Living a Life by Design | 08/01/2024
Show Notes
Did you know that 80% of people will fail to keep their New Year's resolutions by February? 80%! And only 8% of people will stick to them the entire year. But not you. That’s because, in this episode, Mel and Lawsie talk about great financial processes and habits plus give you things to do this month so you feel motivated and empowered to keep going.
Books and resources mentioned in this episode
If you're on insta, come play over at @MelBrowne.Money and make sure you’re signed up to Mel's Money Musings for more tips, tricks and ideas on how to best work with your money.
Finally, if you love this episode please make sure you subscribe and leave us a review.
Transcript
Mel: Hey everyone. I'm Mel Brown. I'm an ex-accountant and ex-financial advisor, so I have the theory, but I also have the life experience. I'm now financially independent in my own right after coming back from less than nothing in my early thirties. I want this podcast to be like a chat with your girlfriends about money. My aim is to help you discover why you're behaving the way you are with money, to suggest new ways you might behave that are a better fit for you, and to increase your financial literacy and financial confidence. I hope it inspires challenges, educates and empowers you with how you do money. So let's get into it. Welcome to Uncensored Money.
Mel: Did you know that 80% of people will fail to keep their New Year's resolutions by Feb Lawdog?
Lawsie: No.
Mel: Don't you? Well, you're learning today <laugh>, but 80%, that's a lot. That number really surprised me when I learned that a few years ago. But also this stat's interesting too. You know how I'm a nerd with stats?
Lawsie: Just a little?
Mel: Just a little. Only 8% of people will stick to a New Year's resolution the whole year.
Lawsie: Those are my people.
Mel: Yeah, <laugh>. Exactly. But 8%. And what we wanna do today is make sure you are not one of the 92% that abandons your New Year's resolution. You are gonna be one of the 8%. We wanna grow that 8%. That's because we are going to add processes and habits and give you things to do this month so that you feel motivated and powered to keep going. And most importantly, that you believe that you can do it, because I think that self-belief is a huge part of the battle.
Mel: I'm a fan of bringing great habits and even business principles to your finances. So today I wanna introduce you to the concept of stop, start and continue. It's something I used to do every quarter in my business and it's about making sure you're layering new things, you're stopping things that are no longer serving you, but you're also continuing with those things that are working for you and not chasing the bright, shiny things. I'm that nerd <laugh>, which means I'm excited to talk about these today with Lawsie mainly because I know they work. And that's the thing that we wanna do. We wanna talk about hacks and tips and tricks that will actually work for you. I promise you one of those is not a budget. What we're gonna do today is we're going share three things in each category. Start, stop, continue. And your job as you listen is to think about three things for yourself. For each category. They might be the three things we talk about or it might prompt you to think about something that you know could be added in for you. Then I want you to come and dm me over it at insta @melbrowne.money or drop a comment into the post for this episode on my Insta and let me know what you are going to do because it's one thing to think it and it's the accountability of actually telling something that will make you more likely to do it. So Law-dog, let's get into it.
Lawsie: All righty.
Mel: Three things you want to stop. These are things that you don't wanna bring with you in 2024 that we wanna sort of leave at the base of 2024 before we start climbing. We're not gonna bring these into 2024 with us. So the first is using bad debt. What we want you to do is to stop using bad debt to leave this here. And by bad debt we mean credit cards after pay, buy now, pay later, zipco personal loans that are using to buy experiences or things that are gonna go down in value, payday loans, all of that stuff that you paying a high interest rate on. Or if you are thinking, yeah, but Mel, I've never paid interest or I've never paid a single fee for using all of these. I've talked a lot here before and on my Insta channels and probably everywhere that I'm given a soapbox about the fact that there's so much research into credit cards that show that you will spend up to a hundred percent more when you use a credit card.
Mel: Citibank did its own research and it showed, and Citibank offers credit cards. They found that you'll spend 12 to 18% more just by using a credit card, which is a form of interest. Whereas Afterpay on their own website and the reason they can charge a high merchant fee to retailers is because you are going to pay an extra 18% to 40% more. So you might never pay a fee. But if you think about it, if you're gonna spend a hundred bucks, you would never spend 140 but you'd have no problem moving from 25 to 35 and that's the Afterpay effect. And you're going to shop 50% more. This is stats off after pays own website. What we want you to do in Jan 24 is to decide to ditch the bad debt, cut your credit cards up, shut down your Afterpay and decide that this is the year that you are not going to rely on that. Beautiful.
Lawsie: Our next one is we want you to stop reading clickbait headlines. All those exciting headlines that you see that it's gonna take you 20 years to save for a house deposit or you need, 300 K to buy a house, or the share markets have dropped 50%. All of those things, that show their big numbers–
Mel: –Properties going to drop 20%. All of the headlines.
Lawsie: Yeah, they're all big massive headlines that are designed to make you go, huh, and spark that emotional reaction within you. So you go in and obviously read the article or watch the news reel or whatever it is. So ignore them. Changes in share market in property and all of those things are always gonna happen. Yes, for some people they might need $300,000 to buy a house, but that's because they're buying a very big, very expensive house. And if that's not something that you're after, you are not gonna need the 300K. So it is being aware, like it's one thing to be aware of things that are happening and knowing what things could be impacting your share investments if you've got them or property in the area that you're looking to buy and stuff like that. But don't look at it all and then be the worst thing is people overreact to it in a negative way or an adverse way that affects their finances. Or it just puts you into fear or stops you freeze mode and you just go, oh that's unattainable now. Or I can't do this or I can't do that. Just don't read them <laugh>. And if you do read them, don't take them to heart but actually think about what is the elements within that that actually are relevant for you and impact you if anything at all and then keep going on with your day.
Mel: And the problem with those headlines is there's an element of truth in them. So there is some research that says the average house prices, if you wanted a 20% deposit, you might need 300,000. That's average prices. There is a lot of cheaper prices than that where you do not need 300,000. Otherwise, I mean if the average incomes at $80,000, which is pretty much what it is in Australia, if you're a two person household, 160 K, lots of them are still buying homes. So you don't need a 300 K, it's also not gonna take you seven years. It's realizing yes, it's based on some stats, but I could give you stats and there would be a measure of truth to them. And having done statistics, I can make statistics <laugh> say what I want to say. It's realizing that there is some truth to it. But just to not believe the lie of, oh my gosh, this is infallible truth and therefore I'm gonna opt out because I can't possibly do that.
Lawsie: Yeah, it's not a blanket that is gonna apply to absolutely everybody.
Mel: Exactly.
Lawsie: With that, so yeah, it is understanding the limitations <laugh>, yeah. Of the starts that are being used.
Mel: And the third thing we want you to stop, and we could keep going with lots of these, but we've just picked three for each category and is only paying off your mortgage. So if you have a mortgage, the danger that we see is, especially with rising interest rates is that people go, you know what? I'm just gonna concentrate on paying that off and then I'm going to look to invest. And when I've said this before, I've had people comment or message me and say, I don't have any other income to invest, I wanna call BS to that. I wanna say that you can find 20 bucks a week and that that's enough. That small things you can Micro Invest starting small is completely okay. It is just about starting and I want you to think about where you're spending money and what if you were to reduce that slightly or we have a free download 50 plus ways to find 10 K in 12 months, which will pop in the show notes.
Mel: You might say, you know what, I'm going to use that and I'm just going to use that money. I'm going to use found money to invest. But the danger of only paying off your mortgage is there's an old adage that you can't eat your house. And what I mean by that is if I finish working and I own my own house and that's it, I can't make money from that unless I'm prepared to get a reverse mortgage or a boarder or sell it. And a lot of people don't wanna do those three things. So we need to build up other income streams or other investing as well. And I read today a really interesting statistic that said more people in their fifties have got a loan, a mortgage than ever before and more people are going to retire with a mortgage than ever before. To which I go, so like I think we need to get rid of this antiquated notion of you need to retire without a mortgage.
Mel: Because actually it doesn't matter for most people by the time they retire with that mortgage, that's potentially gonna be cheaper than rent anyway because the current ad value of that mortgage repayment in 30 years time is going to go down. If we look at what a dollar today is worth in 30 years time, if you've got another five years on that mortgage when you retire, who cares. So I think we need to rewire and certainly in Australia you can grab money out of super in a lump sum and pay it off then there's so many options. But again, it is realizing and part of the issue is our financial literacy is low, which is why you are here. But one of the things we want to challenge you on is this notion of only paying off your mortgage. And we're gonna get into other things that you could do today that if you are going, Ooh Mel, but I don't know what to do, keep listening because we are gonna mention some training that we've got that's free that's happening this month that will help you with things like your investing, etc. Beautiful <laugh> rant over. That's a big rant of mine.
Lawsie: I know moral of the story is don't focus or stop only focusing on paying off your mortgage and look at other things as well.
Mel: Yeah.
Lawsie: To change tack then and to look at three things that we want you or that we think you could start.
Mel: Three positive things we've done the stopping <laugh>, we've put up the big red flags.
Lawsie: Red sign.
Mel: Now we're saying here is where we want you to go. <Laugh>,
Lawsie: Here's some green flags for you to wave. The first one is investing. So if you're not already investing then start as Mel was alluding to just before, like you don't need to have all of this money behind you to be able to start investing. You can start with as little as 1 cent. If you could go and take a 1 cent coin and put it in the bank. There's so many options. It is easier than ever before to start investing and there's no reason why you can't start investing with, you know, let's say a dollar, $5, $10. Like it doesn't have to be the hundreds or thousands of dollars that I think a lot of people think you need to have. And also if you already have been investing but you've kind of put it on pause because you've come through Christmas and holidays and all of those things, then it's about restarting that.
Mel: Yeah.
Lawsie: Because I know we've spoken to a lot of people and being mindful of obviously cost of living rising and interest rate rises and all the things that we're all experiencing. People have kind of gone, they've been bracing themselves, they've stopped investing over Christmas, they wanted to go or wanted to make sure we had dollars for things plus holidays, all those kind of things. But if that is you, there is nothing like just getting back in the habit of it. Yeah. And doing it. And even if it's not the same amount that you might've been doing six months, 12 months, two years ago, that's okay. Still actually putting something in is better than nothing. And it again, it's just about getting that habit in play. And then as circumstances change when you get a pay rise, when you find some savings because you've reviewed your expenses, whatever it is, then you know that it's easy just to increase the amount that you're investing. But the important thing there is if you're not investing to actually start and if you have put a pause on it then to restart.
Mel: Yeah, Absolutely.
Mel: It's a New Year, you've decided you wanna do financially better this year, but the problem is your habits and situationships with money aren't going to change once the clock struck midnight on January one. The truth is, to get where you really want to be financially in 2024, you need a plan tailored to your unique situation. But that's not gonna happen all at once. To reach those money goals, you need to take one step at a time, and that's exactly why I am running free training in January that can be the catalyst to your new beginning. No matter where you are financially. It doesn't matter whether you are dealing with massive debt, whether you're good with money, but you want to learn more about investing, whether you're holding on and just trying to stay afloat or you don't know about money and finances at all. This training is for you called your Financial Fresh Start. It's been designed to be exactly that. It's happening from Monday, the 22nd for two weeks. Head to the link in the show notes and make sure you register so that you are doing something different so that you get a different result this year.
Mel: The second one, if you are not already doing this, it's something that we really think that you should consider starting, is that it? And that is multiple bank accounts and automating, I call it the Seth Godin principle. So Seth Godin is it was is a New York marketing guru and he once wrote a blog that talked about eating from the one bowl. And he said, if we are just eating from the one bowl, then we're relying on our willpower to know when to stop. So if we filled up a bowl and said that's your food for the day, I know personally I'm gonna overfill myself or I'm gonna go, oh, I have to rely on myself to stop and to know what I should be doing.
Mel: Versus he said it. If we have a smaller bowl or multiple bowls, suddenly willpower is irrelevant and we know then great, I can just relax knowing that this is what I'm allowed to enjoy and I can enjoy it without thinking, oh hang on, when do I have to stop? It's the same with our money. If we have multiple bank accounts and we automate it, which is also the key, then we can relax knowing, okay, I've got my bills going to that bill account, which is where it's being paid from. I've got my savings going to the savings account, I have my buffer going to the buffer account and I just eat from what's left.
Mel: And the trick with it is if you get to payday and there's $5 left, you don't go to your credit card, you go to your pantry, you go to an app that tells you what you can make with the rice, the chicken noodles and the chili sauce <laugh> that's there <laugh>. And you kind of do what you did at uni days or when you first started work, you just kind of wing it and you have a budget day or frugal day. There seems to be this lie that we've told ourselves that we shouldn't have to do that anymore or we are too old for that now. And actually we need to call BS to that and realize that actually we can have it all. We just can't have it all at once. But multiple bank accounts and automating means it's, as I said, it's not reliant on your willpower. You don't need to be thinking about a budget. And you can then relax going, well I know now what I've got. This is the money that I have available and when that's gone then I need to be super creative or I need to find more. And those are the three main ones. It's bill's everyday account and savings account and a buffer account as well for a bonus.
Lawsie: And the third thing that we had for things that you should start this year is educating yourself financially. Obviously the first step is, well it's almost a continue, obviously continue listening to our fabulous podcast.
Mel: Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.
Lawsie: But it is just about understanding where you're at and then just doing things that you can easily do just to start becoming more aware of finances and things that you can be doing to improve your overall financial situation.
Mel: Yeah,
Lawsie: So it could be reading the newspaper Mel's favorite. Yeah, the AFR. It could be magazines, it could be reading some of the great books that are out there. I know lots of people have read the very famous finance book, <laugh> in Australia's been the number one bestseller for who knows how long, but it's whatever it is. And even if you look at it or read those things and go, oh that's not for me, at least you've worked out and gone, well those things aren't for me. But then it's gonna get you a step closer to something that is going to be all multiple things are gonna be right for you. And just by being more aware it makes it easier. I think that's the biggest thing that we see is if we come back to what we said the it's the first thing for you to start of investing, people are scared to invest because they don't understand it. They look at it and go oh it's gambling. Whereas if you make the time to learn more about it, do Mel's masterclass on investing in shares for example as a starting point or any of those things, you become more comfortable with it. It's no longer the unknown. You don't need to be fearful of it and therefore you're more likely to start or restart or continue with it. So definitely just becoming more aware of what is happening in your world with finances, but also just understanding the overall basic principles of finances as well.
Mel: And the Hilda report in Australia showed that more than half of us have low financial literacies. We couldn't answer the five basic questions on finances. And if you are somewhere else in the world, which I know lots of people listen globally, then don't be patting yourself on the back thinking stupid Aussies, if you're across the western world, your stats are pretty much the same. There is this declining financial literacy but with more and more financial products and more and more like the ability to really get ourselves into trouble 24/7, educating yourself financially I think is more important than ever before because you can get yourself into trouble quicker than ever before or you can start, download an app, start investing, but actually not understand the fees, whether you own it, how you should invest timeframe and more.
Mel: And that's why this month we are running some training that's all about having a financial fresh start. So it's over two weeks. I'm doing two 60 minute classes and then the next night I'm running a Q&A where you can jump on and I'll answer any questions from the previous night. So we're talking about debt, we're talking about investing and then wrapping it up on a bonus one and there's going to be closed Facebook groups so you can ask questions, all sorts of stuff. So I so encourage you to be part of that. I'll put the link in the show notes and it's called Your Financial Fresh Start. Because that's what we want it to bring for you is to really have these great financial habits early. Because It's all about, if you remember from what we said at the start, it's all about you being one of the 92% that stick with this for the year.
Mel: But the three things you wanna continue, because I think what we do in life is we go, I'm gonna stop doing these things because they're bad for me or what's the bright shiny thing that will really help, superpower. But what we don't remember and we don't think is actually what are the great things that we need to keep doing that have served us really well that actually we don't wanna drop in favor of this bright shiny thing that came along. So we wanna recognize three things that actually you might wanna bring with you. And the first is if you have some good financial habits, keep going with them. Now I'm such a believer that finance is personal. I do not believe there's a one size fits all approach, which is why it's messier. But it's more transformative and it's more sustainable. So if you've got something that's working for you, whether it's you vision board, every January you take a picture on your phone and that's the thing that you are motivated by.
Mel: I'm looking at Lawsies face. She would rather, what would you rather do than do that <laugh>. See she would hate that so much as would I But if that works for you, don't abandon that for me. I do and I've talked about it for the last eight years I've done My Best Year Yet. That's something that so works for Tony and I of course we did that on the 1st of January and I talked about that in last week's episode as well as if you can search through previous episodes and you'll see that there as well. If you wanna really get into that, maybe it's budgeting because you might be one of the minority that actually loves the spreadsheet and loves to minutia it down. If that works for you, keep going with it. Don't abandon great financial habits just because not everyone's doing or in or to grab a bright shiny instead.
Lawsie: Yeah. Oh absolutely. And I think even talking to others in our community, like so many of them are not going to set those the New Year's financial resolutions.
Mel: Yeah.
Lawsie: And all those things but they are doing the good habits that they have developed. So for some of them it's like, no, I'm taking that time now because I wanna be able to review the expenses and what I've spent on in the last 12 months just to make sure that things haven't crept in and I'm spending in other areas that I actually don't want to or don't need to anymore. And just some of those are the housekeeping things where it's, they know that this works and it's not exciting but they know that they have to continue doing it because overall that's what makes such a big impact for their finances. That it's not just dollars walking out the door. I know others are absolutely doing the vision board and really having that big picture creative view of what they wanna achieve in the year. Whatever is gonna work for you. Like I just think it is so important to make sure that you keep continuing with that.
Mel: My Husband and I went for a walk this morning and we talked about this where if you've done something once last year and it worked really well, don't go Oh wow that was good and never do it again. I wanna give you a couple of examples. So one is I've got a good friend who last Christmas I was talking to her about dog walking and PawWalk or whatever the the website's called.
Mel: And she couldn't afford a new wrench so she didn't wanna have a dog for her kids. But also she was really struggling over Christmas with dollars. She borders an affluent area, they made $2,000 dog walking over three weeks like stupid money really set her up financially for the start of the year. She has not done that this year and I know she's really struggling this year and it's that she should have continued that great habit and I've actually brought it up with her and she's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah that was really great. We should do that. And I know she hasn't done it. So if something worked for you. Think about what it was and ask like diarise it, put it in your diary every single year.
Mel: The second one is interest rate reduction. So the number of people inside our community that ask the bank for an interest rate reduction when they do the my financial adulting plan, the average interest rate reduction is 0.5%. they get. They love it, they get super excited, they've saved thousands of dollars. Don't just do that once. Continue doing that great financial habit every single year. And what you might do is stick something in your diary to remind yourself of that because if you don't naturally think of these financial habits then pop it as a date in your diary so that you do you know I have recurring birthdays every year in my diary because I'm hopeless. I'm gonna forget them. Do the same thing with you finances.
Lawsie: Did you need to know when mine is?
Mel: Your birthday? Oh birthday. No I know when yours is July <laugh>.
Lawsie: Ooh <laugh>. Alright we don't need to do that.
Mel: I know, that's why I didn't say the day. <Laugh>,
Lawsie: The next thing that we think you should continue is of course listen to this podcast
Lawsie: But also, leaning in again to those habits and what we're saying for things under things to start is just about keeping that education going with your finances. Because It doesn't matter if you're someone that like this is the first thing you've ever listened to that's related to finances or if you're someone that's like, the CEO of a multi billion dollar company and feel like you're all over it. There's still going to be things that you were going to learn and pick up and just things like and I said that you might just be refreshed on. It's like oh yeah that's actually a great thing. Or you've gone so far with your finances but you've actually forgotten some of the basics and things like that. So it is absolutely start listening now and doing all of those things and absolutely continue it throughout the year. Because I know Mel, being the stats nerd that she's is.
Mel: <laugh>.
Lawsie: Looks at our stats and from other people that we know and spoken to and things we all get excited. There's something about that New Year energy we're like, yes, yes, yes we're gonna do all of the things and just like our New Year's resolutions fall off the cliff, so does our interest in all of the things that we wanna start at the beginning of the year. And you can see that with podcast stats and the like as well. It's, everything's really high at the start year and then it all peters off towards the end. So it's continuing it as we're in 2024 but continuing it the whole way through the year as well and not just having it as this, well I'm gonna continue listening to the next three episodes of this particular podcast and stop. It's like, no, how can you get this and make it a habit, make it's a routine that it is something you're gonna constantly getting a bit of a financial hit for throughout the whole year.
Mel: Yeah, absolutely. And the last one I really love and I think it's funny that Lawsie you put this one forward as a bit of a perfectionist and that a bit, a lot of a perfectionist <laugh>. I think you can be a bit of a perfectionist.
Lawsie: Committed.
Mel: And that is progress not perfection. Because I think what happens is we commit to doing something. Yes, we're gonna do this and we stumble, we think I'm not capable and so we give up or it doesn't quite go according to plan. Or it's harder than we first thought and so we give up. I know that happens a lot with exercising and my husband's a physio so he sees it a lot where someone will decide to start running and either they'll download a running plan that's just wrong for them, kind of like trying to stick to a really strict budget and then they'll get injured. So they'll come and see him and they'll go, oh this is obviously not for me. I'm just gonna stop. Like it's not worth it. Versus going and figuring out okay, where am I up to? What's the plan that's right for me? And then gradually building it up rather than thinking I've never run before but I wanna run a marathon in Feb. It's probably not gonna happen. I love the progress, not perfection and it's one Lawsie and I super guilty of as recovering all or nothing people. Black and white thinkers <laugh>,
Lawsie: I don't don't know what you're talking about.
Mel: No <laugh> We're saying this with kindness because it's something that we fall prey to. It's realizing that if that's you and if you relate to that and if you know you're gonna opt out of something, I will not enter awards because If, what's the point, if you know you can't win, you know I so get this progress, not perfection <laugh>, I totally get it. But when it comes to your finances, we want you to be kind to yourself and realize that it's actually the compounding effect of those small steps snowball into enormous impact to keep going with it.
Lawsie: Yeah. And I think it's also allowing yourself and reminding yourself that it's actually okay to change. Like as someone that is very, no, this is what I've said. I'm doing this, I'm gonna follow this all the way through.
Mel: But you said–
Lawsie: This is more like a lesson for myself. Let me just talk and as I'm hearing it, this is gonna be really good for me. But I think it ties in with that progress, not perfection as well. Because you might set some goals or targets for things that you wanna achieve in the year and then let's say it's that you want to clear credit card debt or things and life happens.
Mel: Mm-Hmm.
Lawsie: We can all set everything out with the best of intentions and suddenly things will break and you'll need to replace things or if someone is sick or whatever the case is and it's just about going, okay, that's happened. It is what it is. And then being able to adjust for it. Because I know like for me even I'm like, no, I wanted to invest X amount this year and that's my, obviously it's it's tick a list and I'm gonna get all of these things done, but having to make that realization partway through the year that I can, but at what cost am I doing that?
Mel: Yes.
Lawsie: And I actually needed to change that and that's okay.
Mel: Yeah.
Lawsie: I'm still telling myself it's okay, I haven't quite accepted it, but you <laugh>.
Mel: No, I love that.
Lawsie: Like there is that thing as well that I think that as you're doing this, yes it's progress and not perfection, but also just you can change and things can change and you don't have to stick to it just because you said that.
Mel: Yeah.
Lawsie: And I know you're looking at me laughing at me going, but you said because that is my favorite line because I'm like, no, no, we have to be sticking to what we say. But I think it is very important to realize that you can change it. And I'm certainly not saying that you go, oh, I'm gonna be investing for six months and now I'm changing it, living my best life and not investing a dollar. No, that's not what I'm saying <laugh>. But to change the course of what you're doing or to change your expectations and things, I think it is okay to do it and not to feel guilty about as long as you're doing it for a genuine reason, that's still in line with your values and I think that that's totally fine.
Mel: No, I love that. So what we want you to do now is think about three things in your category and then if there's things that you need to pop in your diary when it comes to continue, if there's things that you wanna do but you're not quite sure then make sure we've got our free financial Fresh Start training starts on 22nd of January. So we'll put it in the show notes that can absolutely give you the push that you need so that you can feel like you've got this and give you a financial path that you can choose to walk down knowing that okay, this might be something that can be helpful for me. So make sure you check that out and then come DM over at Insta, @melbrowne.money let me know what you are gonna be doing when it comes to start stopping and continuing.
Mel: If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed and give us a review, then make sure you come and play with me on Insta. I'm at @melbrowne.money Remember there's an E on the end of Browne. I'm one of those fancy brownes, and don't forget to check out the show notes for even more ways you can work with me to transform your finances.
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