Uncensored Money Season Five: Mel and Lawsie Talk Giving Your Willpower a Break
Melissa Browne: Ex-Accountant, Ex-Financial Advisor, Ex-Working Till I Drop, Now Serial Entrepreneur & Author, Financial Wellness Advocate, Living a Life by DesignĀ | 09/09/2024
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Show Notes
You know when you tell yourself you're not doing something anymore, and then a week later you find yourself unconsciously in the process of doing just that?
A few weeks ago, Mel found herself in just that loop. She set herself the challenge to shop her closet and not the stores, and yet when Sarah Blakely dropped her new Sneex, she caught herself adding to cart.
In this episode of Uncensored Money, Lawsie and Mel talk about the strain on our willpower that our phones have on us daily, and the habits we can create that can help give that willpower a break.
Books and resources mentioned in this episode
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Transcript
Mel: Hey everyone. I'm Mel Browne. I'm an ex-accountant and ex-financial advisor, so I have the theory, but I also have the life experience. I'm now financially independent in my own right after coming back from less than nothing in my early thirties. I want this podcast to be like a chat with your girlfriends about money. My aim is to help you discover why you're behaving the way you are with money, to suggest new ways you might behave that are a better fit for you, and to increase your financial literacy and financial confidence. I hope it inspires challenges, educates and empowers you with how you do money. So let's get into it. Welcome to Uncensored Money.
Mel: Have you ever caught yourself mid doing something that you said you weren't gonna do? And it just happened almost unconsciously, just me, <laugh>, Lawsie. You've never found yourself doing that.
Lawsie: Never. I'm an angel. We've just discussed that many a time <laugh>.
Mel: Well, if you are not like Lawsie and you're like me, then stick with me <laugh> because lean in for confession time with Mel.
Lawsie: Oh, I'm excited. <laugh>.
Mel: I know. So I am a DINK, a double income, no kid and no kids. And I love me. Some clothes and shoes
Lawsie: Really?
Mel: Again, a huge, all of these are huge surprises. But I decided last month that I'm gonna shop my closet for the next few months that I'm not gonna buy anything new a=nd I'm gonna spend more time culling and, um, mending and altering and consigning and selling some of what I do have. And as anyone who has looked into my closet or closets,
Lawsie: I was gonna say confession time says multiple closets.
Mel: So they would say, you have enough at home.
Lawsie: Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.
Mel: And yet, on Thursday last week, or couple of weeks ago now, Sarah Blakely dropped her new company s Sneex. And I still can't decide if they're hideous high-heeled sneakers. But I caught myself adding to cart one of said Sneexs sneaker heels, <laugh>. I mean, I remember you, the, the notification Lawsie going. And then that happened. <laugh>,
Lawsie: <laugh>.
Mel: Oh, but the reason I'm talking about this today isn't for you to judge me on my hideous shoe choices. I am doing that already, or are my decision.
Lawsie: I think they're kind of cool. I'm curious to see what they look like in your life.
Mel: I know we digress. They're on their way or for judging me, for going against something that I said I was gonna do again, I'm doing that already. Instead, it's to remind you and me that we live in a hyper capitalist society that has been designed to sell to us 24/7 and Lawsie. I don't know if you remember this, but I am old enough to remember when stores didn't open on a Sunday. Do you remember that one?
Lawsie: And do you know that that also happened in my lifetime? <laugh> Shock Horror,
Mel: <laugh>? I don't know. You were, you are a little younger
Lawsie: It still also happens in country towns too. You'd be very surprised, to hear.
Mel: Which I love. But I also remember when you had to leave the house in order to shop, which again, online shopping really,
Lawsie: I also remember that
Mel: sprinted in Covid. So I feel like that we all get that. Yet I still got myself in trouble with store cards and credit cards when I was younger, but I didn't have apps on my phone, which meant I could keep shopping with ease at any time of the day. And as Dr. Gina Cleo, a leading habit expert who we've had on the pod said, our willpower is a muscle. And the more you use it, the more fatigued it gets. And we live in a society where our willpower is constantly being tested every moment of every day. And that's why Lawsie and I wanted to talk about this today, to talk about how you can stop yourself from doing this. Not just once, but constantly. Because I am that person who does need to find ways to stop myself acting on impulse. Whereas Lawsie, are you like that? I feel like knowing you so well, you are not like that at all. Like, do, have you ever had a Sneex moment? Like, or what is your version of that?
Lawsie: I know I really struggle with this. And some of it's probably a little bit recency because you know, we've got a particular thing that we're saving for at the moment. So I'm like, it just makes my life very simple. I'm like, no, I just don't challenge myself on that. It's like, no, we've made the commitment. That's something that we're saving towards and therefore there's no discretionary spending. But I have to confess, I'm also not someone that has this, like, I don't understand when you're telling me that you unconsciously add something to your card. I'm like, no, that's a very conscious movement <laugh>. But I do appreciate that it is something that happens to so many people. I mean, even when we look at those that are completing the latest round of My Financial Adulting Plan, like they've gone through and they've done a financial detox and it's just the awareness that it's brought to their spending is huge. And that's, you know, you are a huge advocate for that. And I know that you do that as well for that exact reason. Whereas we often then laugh and go, oh, Lawsie doesn't do that.
Mel: Lawsie doesn't need to do that.
Lawsie: But I mean, there's pros and cons of both sides of that, isn't it? Like there's things where I'm like, oh, I've missed out on things because I haven't been willing to, yeah. Budge. Or there's something that I'm like, go, actually, I really like that, but no. And then I still actually really like it three months down the track, six months down the track, I'm like, I really wish that I had done that. So there is pros and cons with it, but you know, absolutely. Like even if when I was younger, there would've been more discretionary spending. It still was a conscious thing I would say. But it's, you know, if you wanna tempt me with a really good outdoor backpack, you know, that's gonna be like my weakness. So I think everyone's got something that's gonna be their thing, but I'm not. Yeah, you and I quite strangely, one of the many things that we're very different with.
Mel: <laugh>, which is why it works so well. But, so if we are gonna lean on Lawsie a a little bit today, but also we are going to, like, I have set up a lot of habits in my life to make sure that this happens less often. And I made a joke that it happened unconsciously. It absolutely happened consciously. It just happened. And I was surprised that I had made that decision. I was very resolute with it. I'm like, no, no, I'm not gonna spend at the moment, you know, I'm gonna shop my closet and then this happens to tempt me. And I was able to justify it to myself. So what we wanna have a chat today around is how to be aware of it. How to set your habits and your financial life in such a way that this is gonna happen. And if you're more like me than like Lawsie, how can you make sure it happens less often than not?
Mel: Because I think to say that it's never gonna happen is to set yourself up for failure. Oh, absolutely. And to your point, we've got people in the My Financial Adulting Plan that they stumble once during their 30 day detox and they go, oh, I've failed and stop. Whereas my thing is, no, no, failure is great. Be curious about the failure. Think about, so what happened? Was it emotional? Was it did? Were you stressed? Was it just, this is a habit you found yourself in where you get delivered a certain email selling and then you just click and buy. Like what's the thing that you can do to stop that being something that just happened? So this is, and this is an amazing opportunity, not a failure. So we've gotta rewrite that for ourselves. But we wanna talk about a couple of things really simply today to help set yourself up for success.
Mel: Especially as we are entering a time where I think we are being called on to spend more, like where it's coming into silly season, where it's coming into huge sales times over the next couple of months. So we are gonna try and stop you from just unconsciously spending. So the first one that you said, Lawsie that stops you is goals. Yeah. So if I think, you know, it can be hard to stay focused on your goals to not have your willpower overrun. But I think part of the issue is if your goals aren't exciting enough, then chances are you're not going to wanna stick to them. So maybe talk to me about that for you and how, 'cause you just went, oh my gosh, I'm not discretionary spending and you kind of, are you kind of happy about that <laugh>?
Lawsie: Yes.
Mel: I wanna say you
Lawsie: Like, you like, you know, really leaning into that all or nothing superpower that you and I both have. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And it's really strong when it comes to my finances and things that I'd like. Yeah, I think it's exactly what you said though. If you aren't excited by the goals that you are working towards or you don't feel that attachment to them, I don't think you're going to be, you know, as committed to it as, you know. And I guess you could use, you know, know the common example of, you know, so many people thinking they have to buy a house and that becomes, yeah, I wanna buy a house or I need to buy a house or whatever. But if deep down that's actually not something that you're wanting to do, you are not gonna be, you're gonna be tempted to dip into that money that you're saving for the house to deposit.
Lawsie: You're gonna be engaging in behaviors that are contrary to what you're saying or feeling like you should be saying that you wanna achieve. And for me it's like if I've got the right goal, then I'm just gonna be working towards that. Yeah. Like it's, and I know that I'm very black and white with that and probably a little too black and white as I said before. Yeah. But it's, yeah, because the thing is so important. I'm like, great, that's, but I also find that it simplifies my life too because I go, I'm not then sitting in this gray zone of trying to live and be doing certain things now and then, you know, saving for this thing down the track and being tempted sort of either way I am like, no, we've made that decision. That's the thing that we are doing next. That's what I need the money for.
Lawsie: So then it just makes, it's almost like a filter for me to run everything else. Yeah. Through to be like, do I need that new pair of shoes? No. Like I might want them, I might want those Sneex, but I don't necessarily need them. Same. It's more, you know, it's looking and going, okay, well that goal was more important. So we are not doing an overseas holiday this year, or we are not gonna go on holidays. Or if we do, it's gonna be, a camping trip or something that's much lower cost. Like I'm really like, I think it's just being aware that you, you know, strangely and contrary to what a lot of us might like to believe, you can't have everything. So I think if you are really clear and excited on the goal, for me personally, it definitely makes life simpler.
Lawsie: 'cause I just go, no, no, no. And it's not to say like life can still absolutely happen when you're working towards your goals. Like there's those unexpected things that can arise. So despite having the strongest goal in the world, if you know, suddenly something happened and I had to, I don't know, surgery for my dog or you know, those Yeah. Unexpected things. And if it, you know, I didn't have enough money in my buffer or whatever the case is, I'm still absolutely gonna deviate from my goal. But to your point before with, you know, people in the detox and they're thinking it's a failure, it's like, yes, there might be a deviation in your path on the way to achieving your goal, but that's okay. Yeah. Like it's uh, you know, being kind to yourself as well to acknowledge, well actually the dog is quite important to me, my little colleague, my little coworker.
Lawsie: So I, of course I'm gonna spend money on that even if it pushes the timeframe for my goal out. Like it's, you've gotta be, you know, have some flexibility. Flexibility, yeah. Flexibility for movement. But not to be, if you are looking at it and going, oh friends are suddenly going to, I don't know, Bali or Europe or something, and you're like, oh, I really wanna do that too, so I'm gonna stop that. That I would argue then the goal that you're working towards potentially isn't strong enough or isn't the right goal for you if you're gonna be tempted by those other things and not feel like in a position to go, well, as much as I'd love to go, I'm not gonna go because of this reason. Yeah. So
Mel: I don't know about you, but sometimes I wish there was an easy way, a silver bullet, a magical unicorn, a fairy godmother ready to grant me three wishes. I mean, think of all the miracle diets, fitness fads, promising a six pack in six weeks, or finance bros promising riches by following this easy formula. Do you believe a word of it?Well, the part that longs for a quick fix might be taken in, but you are smarter than that. Personally, what I believe in is consistency, educating myself, finding an expert to help me, surrounding myself with a community who are going to motivate me to keep going and make me feel like I can do it because they're doing it too or are further down the road than I am. That's exactly what we've created inside the My Financial Adulting Plan. If you feel like you're on top of your finances, you have a plan for this year that you're super comfortable with and have everything you need to make that happen, then just ignore this ad. But for the rest of you, make sure you check out my life-changing 12 week course or for less than the price of a cup of coffee a day. Head to the show notes to join the wait list for the next round. Or you might be lucky enough to find that the doors are open and you can join now.
Mel: I feel, and I wanna talk about a couple of things when it comes to goals. I wanna talk about competing goals in a sec. But I find that one of the things I'm struggling with at the moment is exactly what you're saying, the goals. I'm, we talked about this just before we jumped on. Like the goals I have, I'm not particularly excited by and they're a bit abstract. So I think when you've got, you know, it's your first home and you are really excited about it, that can be a really motivating goal I think when you've got some bad debt and you're like, no, I wanna be debt free.
Mel: I really am motivated to get rid of that. That can be really motivating when you wanna invest for the first time and you have that goal of I wanna invest in shares and I wanna get to 50 K, like that can be motivating. I have more of an abstract goal around, you know what, I'd like to have a little bit more choice while hubby's going overseas so much. So it'd be nice to go and see him regularly. I am too old to travel, uh, economy because I don't value travel and I don't value travel enough to be, to have hardship with it. <laugh>. So an economy international flight is, I know it's terrible. So, but, so I don't have anything I'm particularly excited by. So therefore I'm really struggling when it comes to setting goals that I wanna stick to. I've got a renovation for a home that I've pushed four years in a row now. 'cause again, I'm not that excited by it. I wanna do it. I don't love our home, but I'm not attached to physical things like our home. So it's a nice to do. We are making it as cheap as it possibly can. 'cause again, I don't value it, but if it, like I'd really like it to happen next May, but if it doesn't again, I'm like yeah, it's already taken four years. Like this is where, what would you say to someone like me, queen of goals, <laugh> when you're a little bit ambivalent?
Lawsie: I think it's still like if it was, I think it's sort of still making sure you've got that long-term goal. Yeah. And your long-term goal might be that you wanna make sure that you are gonna have a comfortable retirement or something where it's long term. 'cause I think then it means bringing that back to your everyday behaviors. It's making sure that you know enough money's going into your super or your retirement funds, making sure that you're still investing. I think Yeah. Though, even though they end up becoming just default habits because they're so ingrained in what you're doing. Mm-Hmm. For you in particular, if it's someone that hasn't then that might be yeah. Something that you are, and we'll talk about how next you really start look at that's important. But I think that way you're still actually working towards a goal. Mm. But it doesn't have to be this you know, super
Mel: Bright, shiny,
Lawsie: Exciting thing where it might just be actually you're just really content 'cause you've set everything up. Mm. Where you go, I'm really content with being able to, you know, go against what you were saying and go and buy the high heeled sneakers and be like, yeah, okay, yes it went against what I'm saying but it's actually not sabotaging any of my goals. It's still my discretionary money that I've kept aside. And because you're not allocating that discretionary spending to anything in particular, I don't think it matters. What I think is more problematic is when people haven't, you know, if you've treat, you've got your income and then you've got your, you know, that's covering your living expenses and then it's covering your discretionary spending and you're not putting some money aside. Like they don't have to be these super exciting goals. But ultimately we all wanna make sure that we're living within our means. We're not racking up credit card debt, Afterpay, whatever. And that we are still putting some money to investing in our buffer and you know, getting those great financial habits and things in play. 'cause I'm like, if they're ticking along then I don't like you're not always gonna have a big meaty goal that you are working towards. Like we certain we
Mel: Tap by.
Lawsie: Yes. Yeah. Like until we sort of decided that we wanna flip life on its head, we like it was very just like kind of like you. It's like yeah I knew that I had money going for my investing. I knew that, you know, doing all of these things so future us is well looked after. But then it was like, well this is the money that's left and we could do what we liked with that. So part of that for me was obviously saving and travel and going overseas. Which I think is still an exciting goal. I'm very happy to, you know, and go through, suffer the hardship in my economy flights overseas, <laugh>. Uh, but again, because I go, I wouldn't spend their money on Yeah that 'cause I don't necessarily go and I want more money for doing the things that I'm over there. You know, so it's you I think it's still okay to have smaller goals.
Lawsie: You don't have to have something that's this really big exciting thing 'cause you, like, once we've done this, like I, I'm gonna be back like you. I'm like great we've yeah. Ticked this goal now. And now it's just really leaning back into our, you know, fundamentals of making sure we've got enough for now looking after future us and enjoying it. And then that's okay. And the goal then is really to keep all of that happening, I would say where you just going the financial fundamentals or happening and what's left is, you know, do what you like with it.
Mel: Mm. So I like that. And we'll talk more about that when we talk about setting your life up because exactly what you're talking about is what I'm doing. It's just not quite as exciting.
Lawsie: <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Mel: And I guess talking about competing goals, 'cause one of the questions we've just been through the My Financial Adulting Plan section where people were talking about goals and one of the things they said is, well what do you do if your goals don't align or if you have different risk profiles? And I think that is tough, but I think having that conversation with your partner, if you have competing goals to say, okay, this is why my goals are important to me. That's why your goals are important to you. How can we meet in the middle? Like how can we both feel safe and seen? What can we make sure we have so that, that we do together so that we both feel like that there is a compromise. Neither of us might be completely happy and maybe there's something that we do separately. That means then that we are both feeling lit up by the, those separate goals we have. But we come together for some others. Certainly Tony and I do that where we have things that we do together and things that we do separate and that works beautifully.
Lawsie: Yeah. And I think like it came up even I was running a accountability session with the people in the current round of My Financial Adulting Plan last night. And one of the people in there was like, oh their partners really, you know, they're looking at it judging how much their discretionary spend is like, no, I have to go and buy my lunch and coffees and all of these things out every day and have all of these, you know, big dinners and lunches out and things and they're going, but we could be putting that money towards something else. 'cause they're looking at it from a goals perspective and looking going, well if you reduce your spending there, we've actually got money that we can be Yeah. Investing in. So it was saving for buffer and doing whatever. And so it is around, it's coming down to what do you actually value? And for them it might end up being, well yes you are gonna have to, do you still think that that thing's really important. You're gonna have to have that discussion to go, all right, well you are gonna cap it at a certain amount but then I'm gonna be doing this with, you know, the portion of money that's mine. Or we are gonna still be making sure that we're investing as well. Yeah. And then you still, you know, have some of that discretionary spend and whatever. So
Mel: The second part is, as Lawsie alluded to, and as I said we're gonna talk about is setting up your financial life in such a way that it's harder for you willpower to become fatigued. Or if you don't have that, if you're in that season of life where you, you know, you've got some things that you're, that you wanna achieve but you're not as lit up by them. Which is definitely my season. It's, as you said, I still have automations going to my superannuation, I have automations going to my share investing, I have automations, I re invest regularly in other areas. So that is all ticking away in the background so that it just happens. It's not, and I guess it's, it's ceased being exciting 'cause none of it's new. But I've got some plans in place in the next few years for some more exciting things that we are saving for. They're just a few years away potentially. But I think to your point it's that can, it's bit reminding yourself that hey actually this is a good thing. Life doesn't have to be the rollercoaster. You can be in the middle of the rollercoaster. It doesn't all have to be deep highs and deep lows like that middle's. Okay. If you've got it set up in such a way that actually you can buy the Sneex. But also everything's just for me is automated and happening and I don't need to think about it.
Lawsie: No. Because I think that can actually be a goal in itself. Like it's, your goal might be financial peace of mind. Yeah. Like that, you know, which is an awesome goal. Like you don't have to have something where you are aiming to have certain amount of dollars in the bank to buy something or to invest in something. It's no like the goal is financial peace of mind where you're not stressed. Where you don't have to be worrying about how are you gonna pay your next bill, how are you, you know, is future you getting looked after. And it's not to say that you won't change what you're doing within that, but your goal, you know, particularly if you're someone that hasn't got those automations in place and isn't investing and you know, might still have some credit card debt or a personal loan, whatever the case is, your goal might be that financial Yeah. Peace of mind. And so the activity that you're doing might not be super exciting. Like Mm. You know, it's not a glamorous, you know, beautiful bougie holiday and it's not whatever, but it's still gonna give you peace of mind. Yeah. And I think that in itself is really important.
Mel: I agree. So part of how you get that is automating, it's all, it's setting up multiple bank account. It's automating your investing. It's having that all happening behind the scenes. And again, these are all things we teach inside the My Financial Adulting Plan. So make sure you jump on the wait list for that where we, this launch, we have our best bonus for everyone. So it doesn't matter who you are, you're getting it. And our best wait list bonus, our very best wait list bonus. So you definitely wanna jump on the wait list for that. So jump to the show notes. But if you are also wanting to reduce the noise and give you willpower a break, some easy things for you to do, some really quick wins that Lawsie and I are just gonna go through is, you know, unsubscribe from emails causing you to spend outside your goals and values, unfollow influencers and brands on social media.
Mel: Maybe have a social media hiatus. Just take yourself off it for a while if you feel like the noise is pushing you to comparison culture is, I, I did that today. I muted a couple of people who are incredible. I really like them, I buy them, but I just muted them 'cause it's actually actually not helpful to my mental health to see what they're doing on the feeds. 'cause I'm a naturally competitive person and I'm gonna compare <laugh> and Lawsie mocked me for it today and I really needed that. But also I just needed to mute them and I'll do it for a while. Lawsie some more.
Lawsie: Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's also understanding yourself like I'm, you know, I think, and to be super practical, so it is having the, you know, having multiple bank accounts. I think if you're someone that is, you know, people often identify and go, well I'm more likely to, you know, I, I am good at paying down debt but I'm really bad at saving. Like, well they're kind of the same, the same principles, but for whatever reason some people find that more difficult. So I'm like, if you've got a goal, like if you used it?
Lawsie: Keep beating that. Yeah. You know, house analogy. But say for example, you're saving up for a deposit for your house, you are not gonna need those dollars until it comes time to buy, you know, the house. So it might be, if you know that you're gonna be tempted to dip into them, that you put them in like a 30 day notice account or something where you've gotta give the bank 30 days notice to get that money out. So that way if someone tempts you with a holiday Yeah. Guaranteed in 30 days or you can have them longer period, you're going to, you know, that feeling of feeling like you're missing out and you wanna be tempted to be drawn away from your goals is gonna be prevented. And that way you're still getting hitting your savings goals and working towards that. So I think some this has to be
Mel: Or pay your mortgage insurance and use a smaller deposit if you're allowed to. Yeah. I mean <laugh>, that's to your point, know yourself.
Lawsie: Yeah. Like I think it's just that being self-aware and not just following what everybody else is doing. Yeah. Because someone will tell you you've gotta have a 20% deposit. Well some industries you don't actually have to, you know. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there's so many different variations of that. So if you know that you're someone that's more likely to be tempted, it's like, well how can you do that? And I think having the multiple bank accounts, not having particular apps on your phone, so it removes that. Yeah. Ease of being able to transfer money. Like all of those things I think are super important. As well as not using credit cards. And yes, don't use credit cards, buy now pay later.
Mel: Don't use buy now. Pay later. I mean, I don't even have a credit card on my phone 'cause I wanna be able to leave the house and not spend, and I know you do because it's not a problem. Tony does not a problem but me, I don't want it on there. Is it a bugger sometimes? Yes. But it's, I just love that I can leave the house <laugh>, there's enough apps on there that I can spend if I was desperate. So yeah, there's so much we can do. So guess what, I hope you've heard us about those twin goals and habits. It's, in some seasons it'll be, and I think always it's finding a goal that's exciting enough or that will, as we talked about, give you that contentment or that feeling of, oh, that's what I'm after. But also it's setting up habits in such a way that you, it just naturally pulls you towards that goal that you want.
Mel: So our challenge for you is to take some time at the start of this week to think about how you're gonna give your willpower break this week and help set yourself up financial success. And as I said, if, if one of those things is will I just need to jump on the wait list for the My Financial Adulting Plan for the next round. Jump on the show notes and make sure you do that as well.
Mel: If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed and give us a review, then make sure you come and play with me on Insta. I'm at @melbrowne.money Remember there's an E on the end of Browne. I'm one of those fancy Browne's, and don't forget to check out the show notes for even more ways you can work with me to transform your finances.
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