Uncensored Money Season Four: MAFS, Love and Money

Melissa Browne: Ex-Accountant, Ex-Financial Advisor, Ex-Working Till I Drop, Now Serial Entrepreneur & Author, Financial Wellness Advocate, Living a Life by Design | 08/02/2023


Show Notes

Research shows that money is the number one issue that couples fight about. So after watching a recent episode of Married At First Sight, Mel and Lawsie reflect on the importance of being able to discuss money and finances in your relationships and share some practice ways you can ease into and start having money conversations in your relationship.

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Mel: We are in February, which I cannot quite believe, and this month on the podcast, I want to talk all things money and relationships. So blame it on Valentine's or Galentine's or Guylentine's or as you are now going to know it, finance times. See when I did there, Lawsie?

Lawsie: Oh, you are all over it. It's beautiful. Finance times

Mel: Yeah's a new thing. Call me Hallmark. We are gonna talk about love and money and friendships and money and dating and money and coupling and uncoupling and money this month and so much more. But we are going to kick it off by talking about the series that has sucked Lawsie and I right back in that we swore after season two never to watch again. Married at First Sight

Lawsie: Feel like it's dirty. Little confession time. We're back in for this round after having a hiatus for so long. But there you go.

Mel: And Tone's in as well. So before I dive into talking about MAFS, particularly when it comes to money in relationships, here are a few stats you might not be aware of. So money is the number one thing couples fight about. The number one thing. Money disagreements affect 70% of couples. So if you fight or disagree about money, you are not alone. It's the majority of couples and this super interesting one. Disagreements over money are a stronger predictor of divorce than other commonly cited causes of marital separation. And of course that would include things like affairs, etc. Money is one of the strongest predictors of divorce. But there are also a few more alarming statistics. So nearly one in 30 women and one in 50 men are subjected to financial abuse in any given year, and women are 35% more likely to be subject to domestic violence if they earn more money than their male partner. I read that one last year and that one freaked me out.

Lawsie: And so just wrong

Mel: Yeah, the emasculation, I imagine. But it's why Lawsie you and I found ourselves yelling at the TV last week when a series of conversations occurred between new MAFS couple, Adam and Janelle.

Now we are gonna give you a brief summary of how their money conversation wentWe thought we'd reenact it cuz we love MAFS and any excuse to do it. So Lawsie in this reenactment, we'll be playing the part of Janelle and I'll be Adam

Lawsie: Oh, I look forward to your deep voice.

Mel: And action.

Lawsie: What do you do?

Mel: Whoa. I'm an entrepreneur. Bit of this, bit of that. Podcasting, crypto, startup. Jargon

Lawsie: Do you make money from that? Can you support yourself?

Mel: How dare you ask me that question. Why is money so important to you?

Lawsie: Culturally, career is important and I wanna understand if you're able to support yourself.

Mel: I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. Are you shallow? Are you super?

Lawsie: Maybe jokes. I'm sorry. You're right. I'll stop asking.

Mel: End scene.

Lawsie: I cannot wait to receive our acting awards for that beautiful role play.

Mel: We're obviously gonna be in the Aarias next year. I mean, obviously

Now as I said, Lawsie and I were basically yelling at the screen by now, and that's because talking about money should simply be yet another thing couples talk about. Did Janelle bring up the conversation perfectly? Of course not. Did MAFS producers cut it so that Adam looks shady? Probably. But ultimately Janelle was made to apologize simply for talking about it.

Personally, I believe that if a partner shames the other for wanting to talk about money and refuses to discuss it, this should be an immediate red flag. Yet instead, as I've said, Janelle was shamed into no longer talking about career and money any further and to apologise if the relationship was to move forward.

I know the couples will be grilled on intimacy and whether they've had sex. That is a huge issue for the show. And of course, sex and intimacy is important in a marriage, but I mean, from the stats that I shared, so is money, and let me highlight them again. Money's the number one thing couples fight about. Money disagreements affect 70% of couples and disagreements over money are a stronger predictor of divorce than other commonly cited cases of marital disagreements. It's why I'd love to see a finance expert on relationship shows like MAFS - Producers, call me - to help couples work through these real financial issues for what is the strongest predictor of divorce, and to shine a light on what are appropriate questions, what are red flags, and to help couples come from a place of curiosity.

Now, Lawsie, this is something we see a lot of either in our lives, as accountants, as financial advisors, and inside our program, the My Financial Adulting Plan. So I thought we'd just take a moment to pause and just talk about some of the things that we've seen where perhaps it was something that either one partner thought was appropriate, but we looked at it and went, actually this is not okay. Or ways that we just saw, or patterns, the way we saw.

Lawsie: Yeah, I think, oh God, we've seen so many and I think it's also interesting cause I think some of it is, and this is obviously a broad stroke, but I think it is like it's an age or era and how you've been brought up a thing as well. Like how many people do we see inside the course that are in their forties, fifties, and even sixties where the wife has never had anything to do with the finances and then suddenly, whatever the reason, the relationship's broken down and they've suddenly gone, I don't even know how to open a bank account. I don't know how to pay for bills and things like that, let alone broader financial education. And that's a huge thing. And I don't think it is as strong now in younger people in their twenties and thirties. I think because we still don't talk about money enough, but I do think we are talking about it more and I think women are more feeling like they wanna make sure they're in control.

They look at their parents or older people that they know and go, I don't wanna be in that situation. So I think there is definitely a shift and there's plenty of examples and stuff we can provide where I think people have done that well, or you and I look at it sometimes and I'm surprised that's the level that you are doing things, but I think particularly where as a starting point, when you look at older women where they just had that typical story of, get married, have kids, they look after the kids, a husband's working, they don't have anything to do with the finances, and then suddenly it's all pulled away from them and they're then going, one, they don't even know what they own and have and I think that's a huge issue. But then also they’re basically starting at scratch again in terms of their education around it, to be able to start looking after themselves financially.

Mel: And I wanna take a moment just to address that you've cold women in their forties and fifties, older women. It's all right ladies. I will deal with her when we get off

Lawsie: No, I said older. As older compared to twenties

Mel: Oh, we heard what you said.

Lawsie: Oh, please.

Mel: I know that is definitely something that we see as a pattern around an abdication of money in a relationship. And it doesn't seem bad. It's one part of the couple. Usually the woman saying, my partner is managing the finances. I don't really know what's going on. And that abdication around, they've got it. And I would argue that at this point, it's not financial control. It's not coercive control or anything like that. It's just simply one person saying, I've got this, and the other person going, thank God. Cause I don't want anything to do with it. And then if and when a split happens, it's then in that awful predicament of, I have no idea what's going on.

But also a couple of things in there. One, it leaves you open to financial abuse and financial coercive control cuz you do not know what's going on. And we have seen both in the accounting firm, financial planning firm, and the course. So many examples around couples where one has abdicated control to the other, thinking they've got it and realizing too late actually they don't. And there are loans being taken out, or there are credit cards, or there's spending beyond means and so much more. Gambling. That's a massive one. I remember that horrible example where it was a reverse, it was the woman back in the day for the accounting firm. Three to five kids, and she was paying all the bills and he didn't really have any oversight into the finances. And she was gambling, she was putting it all through the pokies, and by the time he figured it out, which was only when some suppliers started to say, hey, you haven't paid us. She basically gambled everything they had away and they had to sell their house to pay for things. So yes, you might not be in that situation, but one in two couples will end up divorced. So it behoves you to know what's going on with your finances, but also there's a lot of data that says that people that do, if you are coming from your finances, either because you are not the one that's traditionally good at money or because you're a woman and you are thinking they've got it because women are not as good as money, which that's just BS by the way.

Then you are failing to bring your difference to your finances. You're failing to turn up and say, but this is what I want and how can I help get us there with the creativity and the unique insight and the different risk profile that I bring? So I think just having couples that do money together that are willing, even if you aren't naturally inclined towards finances, I think traditionally they've generally been a lot stronger.

And yes, they still might split up, etc but the fact that they're aligned in doing it together.

Lawsie: Yeah, definitely. And I think because ultimately, yes, this is about money, but it's money and how they're using it to set themselves up, both now and in the future. So I think it means if you're doing that and if you're being more strategic with your money, then you're absolutely having to spend more time on working out what it is that you want as a person and as a couple, and then making the decisions around that, where money is part of that, and then can keep building on it as well.

Mel: But we've also seen and it was in the financial planning firm, the accounting firm, probably more and more in the last few years, the number of women that were coming and seeking financial advice. And they were in a relationship where they earned more and their partner would not discuss money. So it wasn't a DV situation like what we talked about with the stats today, but it was a, I will not talk to you about money because - and it's kind of that Adam and Janelle situation where clearly he, there's something going on for him where he feels uncomfortable or judged or what have you about his finances. And I'm sure for the majority of couples, this is exactly what's going on for them as well. But I was seeing a real pattern where it was women who were earning substantially more than their male partners. And their male partners would not even talk about money. And a lot of these women ultimately were coming and saying, they won't do this with me, so I'm going to do it.

I'm just gonna have to buy the investment property, to start investing in shares because if I continue to press pause and hope that they catch up, then that's gonna put me into such a terrible, or even not a terrible financial position, but a wasted financial position. And it's gonna ultimately rob them of choice, which was sad to see them coming on their own, but I was so glad to see them coming on their own and deciding that their financial independence was more important than making sure that their partner's ego was ok.

Lawsie: But there were others where there's such that disparity in the income and they don't know how to figure out a way to do their finances together. And so even though they were very willing to have that conversation, they weren't able to figure out a way that worked for both of them and ultimately ended up, all of this time like we're talking, like 12 months, two years, let alone how long they'd been doing it before they've spoken to someone about it. That is this lost time of them going, we dunno what we can do. Whereas if they could have sorted something out sooner. Like that's two years or four years that they could have been investing, being more strategic and you're not gonna get that time back. But we know obviously the more time that you've got things invested, generally the bigger the return at the end.

So I think there are two parts of that as well in terms of, yes, your partner not talking to you or being comfortable to talk about it, but also being as a couple, being able to work together to see your way through, which always seemed to be more jarring when you had someone that was earning significantly more than the other and trying to navigate that space that both of them would then feel comfortable.

Mel: And I wanna just say as well that Lawsie and my relationships aren't perfect when it comes to money.

Lawsie: please.

Mel: That certainly in mine Tone and I have enacted processes to be good at money. So, because I'm obviously the finance person, it's really easy for him to just wanna abdicate to me. So we do Best Year Yet, which we've got a whole podcast episode on that. We do Communication Sunday, so we talk about it each Sunday as just part of what's going on in your week and where are we out. So we've had to put processes in place, otherwise that simply wouldn't happen. And we've had to discuss things like if something was to happen to me, what would happen to the Superfund? What would happen to other things? So that he's got a plan because I don't want him, if something were to happen to me, to go, oh God, now what?

Lawsie: what do you do?

Mel: Yeah. So I've brought him into the conversation because of that. But also we've had uncomfortable conversations which we again did recently around cuz he said, should I be starting to contribute? Again, and I had to say, but you do in so many ways, like so many ways. It's just not dollars into the joint bank account at the moment, but his contribution to us as a family is massive. So I think it's also rewriting dollar contribution versus non-dollar contribution and both parties in a couple, recognizing that for what it's worth and being okay with that versus I bring in the dollars I get to make all the decisions.

Lawsie: And I do like how you and Tony do your finances is different to how Adam and I do, but I think we've got that similarity of you and I are the finance people we like most of the time enjoy it, it is just what we naturally like. It's what works for us in terms of also like, you and I are never gonna be able to fix someone's car.

Like we've all gotta have our own strengths, but I think for both of us, it has been something around making sure that our partners are involved. And Adam probably glazes over, but he at least gives me the time of day when I go, right, this is what I'm doing. And he'll go, yeah, because if I'd left it to him to do, in all fairness, we wouldn't have done anything cause he just doesn't understand it. But he understands and gets involved in it. In that same thing, we were saying before around what is it that we wanna achieve and therefore, and I'm very happy to do all the recon and to be prepared to come, okay, this is what I think the numbers look like. This is what thinking of doing. Are we actually on board with that? And sometimes it is that still give and take and having to have that communication around it where I might be going too hard core for the future and not looking at enough now or vice versa. But then you're still actually talking about it, even if he's not the one that's actually clicking ‘buy now’ on this investment. And if we are signing docs and all those things, like we are both still involved in it and there's no way I would be going, just sign this piece of paper, love. You'll be right. It's still always that explaining piece around what it is, which I think is super important but generally, you’re gonna have someone that's gonna take the reins more. But so important for if you are the person that's not taking the reins, it’s still so important for you to actually be involved in it to an extent that you feel comfortable enough with what's going on, even if you're not clicking the ‘buy now’ button.

Mel: And I love seeing inside the course as well, and we're going to give you some best practices and ways to have money conversations if you are someone who says that 70% of our disagreements are money disagreements. We're gonna give you a couple of little exercises you can go away and do today with your partner, but I think sometimes you being interested. So just say you are the one where the partner just has it, or they're the ones naturally inclined, or you just can't get them to talk about money like Janelle and Adam. So what we see a lot inside the My Financial Adulting Plan, and it happened again, is where the female partner will often go, screw it. I'm just gonna go and do it. I'm gonna start learning. I'm gonna start building my financial independence. I'm worried about the household finances. So I'm just gonna start and hopefully I'll be able to get you to come along for the right and the number of times. Eventually the partner is kind of brought along because they're like, oh, what are you doing with that? Or they notice a difference or the female party is more willing suddenly to talk about money in a way that is not just it's more interesting around, oh, have you thought have you heard of this? So it's that engaging conversation rather than…

Lawsie: Yeah, the judgment.

Mel: Yeah. And just today we have a lot of partners inside the My Financial Adulting Plan. And he put up a copy of his Zip Pay account closed, and he said, I see this a lot in here. He said, cause my partner kind of has been doing this and I've been watching and noticing the changes they've been making. And so she invited me into the group and so I've been watching along and seeing how other people are doing this. And he goes, I just wanted to share that I've done it too. And to recognize that, yeah, it was really cool. And to recognize that I'm a male partner and I'm not necessarily active in here, but hey, I'm making changes as well. And I just thought that was really cool that he was impacted in that way. So he said, I just wanted to let you know that this course and group has had a positive effect through my association. My partner did the course and I tagged along to help kick my own butt into financial shape. Wills are in motion. Just wanted to say thank you for the inspiration and motivation of seeing people on here take positive steps forward in achieving goals. I always read the posts and enjoy seeing others kick goals. Even the smallest action steps are in the right direction. So it's that thing as well. I think that when you plant a seed, you don't always see it grow there and then, but sometimes you taking action in the right direction can see your partner starting to. How many times would you have seen one partner start to eat healthy in a relationship, even if the rest of the family isn't or you've decided to get active and suddenly your partner's going for more walks with you and they're suddenly moving more too. So it's by you choosing to do something, you can affect that. And I distinctly remember one Michelle, who's on our film, say that her partner was responsible for kind of doing all the bills and negotiating deals. And when the course was happening. He was, oh yeah I'll look into that. I'll look into the insurance, and yes, he made a small change. And she followed our script for the interest rates and came back and essentially saved 14 to 15 grand a year. And he was like, oh, holy crap. Right? Maybe I should have a look at this. And it's that thing where knowledge is power and suddenly, and sometimes making those moves and being able to create that change in your finances so positively, that might be the thing that wakes your partner up to go, huh, maybe I should have that conversation with him. Maybe this is worth doing because it's not a disagreement, actually, it's a freaking massive change.

Lawsie: Yeah. And a positive change for both of you.

Mel: So even if you are getting radio silence or feeling blocked, I think sometimes you making those steps can really make a difference. And we see that a lot.

Lawsie: Definitely.

Mel: Of course, these couples within an experiment are forced to bring and experience everything quickly, LawDog.

Lawsie: A pressure cooker.

Mel: Definitely Janelle and Adam had that conversation on their first date. Essentially, you are not gonna have that conversation on your first date.

Lawsie: You might.

Mel: So I wanted to give a couple of things. One, let's start with dating. When do you think is an appropriate time to talk about money? And then we wanna give you whether your marriage or dating. We wanna give you some ways to have that money conversation. So Lawsie, I think the appropriate time to talk about money is, it depends strangely. And I've gotta say potentially on date one, depending on your person.

Lawsie: I think there are some people that are really driven by it. It would be unusual to not have it actually brought up on a first date, but I think it is all gonna come down to the way in which you do it. Like if you sit down, you're having your first drink and you go, right, so what do you earn? Of course, a person's gonna go, what on earth?  But I think, yeah, depending on the background, like I don't think it should be off limits.

Mel: Yeah. I think it's really funny that a lot of the thing is about how quickly you're gonna jump into bed with someone, but how quickly you're gonna talk about money? Why can't the two be aligned?  But I think if you have been avoiding the money conversation before it gets serious, whatever that means for you, you gotta have a conversation definitely before sharing bank accounts. Definitely before moving in together, you've gotta have a financial conversation and you might have peppered some money conversations, but I'm talking, what do you have? What do you owe? You might start small, but those money conversations have gotta go deeper as the relationship gets deeper. And a family lawyer once said to us once the shoes are under the bed, that's when you know you should really be starting to be cautious and starting to be having those conversations because you know there's so much potential for sexually transmitted debt, so much potential for issues if it's something that you're not talking about.

Lawsie: Yeah, and I think it's important to do that from a self-protection point of view. Like if you're someone coming in with a lot of assets and the person that you're getting together with has a whole lot of debt, you need to be able to navigate that and protect your stuff, as well as talking about the nitty gritty of how you are going to do finances together when you are living together. So yeah, it has to be both the bigger picture as well as the nitty gritty.

Mel: But whether it's dating or marriage, we wanna give you some conversation starters that you could use. And some of these could be first date conversation starters. Some of them could be seventh date. Some of them could be your date night marriage conversation or living together or what have you, if they absolutely could be done with friends as well.

But starting to have curious questions about money. That for me is the most important thing. And what we want you to do is remove the word ‘why’ from these conversations. Why would you do that? Why do you have that? Why? Why, why? It's just peppered with judgment. So we are going to encourage you to strip the word ‘why’. That's the one word that you are banned from using in your money conversations. Think of other ways to say it. It might be that if someone is coming in with credit card debt and you're like, what the freak why have you got that? Instead, I'm curious to understand how you've ended up with a debt of that much? You’re are asking the same thing,

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: You're coming at it softer.

Lawsie: And you're not getting them on the back foot straight away by going, why have you got this?

Mel: Why have you got this? You’re essentially saying, how stupid are you? Which you might be thinking, but you're not gonna say it. So if your partner either refuses to engage in money conversations with you, or you are finding it awkward to bring up or you just want a different way, I think these are, regardless of whether you are having conversations or not having conversations, here's some beautiful ways to talk about.

So first question, what was your money story growing up? How did your parents do money? So just being curious about back stories around people doing money. So you could start to look for clues around how that's affecting them now as an adult and how they behave. And then the follow-up question is how have you brought that with you into your adult life? What did you reject, what did you keep? And that could be an entire conversation around money around.

Lawsie: ticked.

Mel: Tone and I had this conversation only in the last few months again, and he unpacked a couple of other things and he said, oh my gosh, I never put that together. He goes, of course. That makes sense. And again, it was really helpful for me to listen to that and go, ah, okay this just makes sense for us. The second one is going a tiny bit deeper in just approaching it a different way. So do you think money is good, bad, or okay? And particularly why? So this is where you can use the word ‘why’ and what parts. And so I'd wanna know all three buckets. What parts of money do you think are good? And you might say, well, I think money's good when it's used to help others. I think it's good when it's used to buy assets. I think it's good when it's done for public works, for example. A bad might be debt or debt's bad or when it's used to control or, whatever it is for you. Okay might be, it's okay to have a mortgage because how else are we gonna buy a house. Whatever that is for you. And then to be curious, to notice where you're aligned, and then to notice where you're misaligned, and then to have conversations about that. If your partner says, I think all debt's bad, you might go, huh? I heard this very intelligent woman once say that there are four different types of debt. Good, okay, bad and freaking awful. And what do you think of that? Like, do you think that's the case? And they might go, oh, not heard about that. So suddenly you are learning together, you're sharing. And they might still walk away going at the moment, I still think all debts are bad, but you've been able to have a conversation, an interesting conversation without judgment and where you've both been heard.

The third one I think is really important and can be a beautiful way as well to bring up money without judgment. So where do you see yourself at your next significant birthday? And I don't mean drinking champagne under the Eiffel Tower in Paris, although you could start with that. But financially, like where do you see yourself? Do you wanna be working? Do you wanna not be working? Do you want to be CEO of a multinational? Do you want a home-based business? Do you want, like, where do you see yourself? Do I wanna be working two days a week? Do I want family and to work part-time?

And again, where are you aligned, where you are not aligned, where are the gaps? And for you both to share this and maybe to even get excited about some of the things you're talking about together, and then to move on to ask what would make this year financially your best year, or what would make this year financially our best year?

And you might ask what would make financially your best year? And the person might say, for all of my credit card debt to be gone. Which leads to that question. Oh, do you have a lot of credit card debt? It's just that natural next question, but without judgment. Or they might say, oh, if I could buy a house that would make it financially my best year. Oh wow. Is that something that you're wanting? Do you have a deposit for that? And have you looked in areas? Oh wow. Aren't houses going up in value at the moment? I've got a great mortgage broker. It's just suddenly a conversation that you can start to get involved in money together. And it works for couples, friends, married partners been together for a day or who have been together for 20 years. And I wanna argue if Adam and Janelle had one of these conversations, then it would be hopefully a different outcome than what they had around being shut down.

Lawsie: Hopefully.

Mel: Hopefully. Hopefully we'll see. But of course, it's a curious conversation. But once you are together for a while, you wanna have some sort of regular conversations. We don't wanna just do this. It's a tick and I've done, and I'm never gonna talk about it again. We definitely Lawsie and I are a fan of having processes and systems and, yes this applies as well. It might be that you do your Best Year Yet once a year. It might be that you have a monthly date night where you talk about money. It might be that you have shared goals and the third question's designed to help with that. Definitely having your own money, but it's starting to realize when it comes to love and money, it just simply needs to be part of the mix. Otherwise, it's like trying to ride a tricycle with one wheel missing. Yes, you can try and overcorrect in one of the other areas. If your sex life was absolutely dynamite, you could try and overcorrect into there, but ultimately the missing money wheel's gonna come and bite you in the ass. It just is. So you may as well talk about it and bring it now, and you might make a rule that it's never gonna come into the bedroom, cuz you never want it to affect your sex life.

But you've gotta then pick away. Lawsie is mortified that I've said sex twice. But you've gotta find a way to have that conversation without that money conversation, without both of you wanting to shut it down and feeling like it's not okay. Because if your partner refuses to talk, not to talk about money, it's not okay.

Yeah, at that point I'd be having a curious conversation about what's stopping them from wanting to talk about money when they're able to talk about everything else. Use those three ways to do it

Lawsie: And I think also with that too, it's noting that yes, they might not want to talk about it, but also if they're shutting you down when you are wanting to talk about it and almost belittling you sometimes, that's also something to be aware of.

Mel: Absofreakinglutely. Yeah, and it's to be aware there’s a difference between a partner just saying, I don't wanna talk about it, and coercive control of, I've got this, I will not talk to you about it, and you will just sign documents. Really important to understand the distinction, but also to understand there is, as you said, those two different things.

So if your partner won't have those conversations. or you feel like maybe this is a problem, I would absolutely suggest seeing a counsellor who can help you have that conversation either separately or together. If you were someone who is unwilling, which someone contacted us today about this, who doesn't wanna have the conversation because you know that your relationship is all about coercive control, again, we highly encourage you to speak to a therapist, to speak to someone.

Because that is not okay. And the reason I'm suggesting that you speak to someone is to try and help extract you and to help you have a voice in that and ultimately, that's a form of DV, coercive control, financial abuse. So two very different things. One is just I feel uncomfortable and I don't wanna talk about this. DV and coercive control is the, I've got this, we will not talk about it. I will not discuss it. You will just do what I say. But it's why it's a slippery slope and it's why we wanna have conversations.

We've not been taught how to have normal or appropriate conversations. And MAFS really highlighted to me that people are ignoring that and that they're just playing that out on television and thinking that this is appropriate and it's not. So we've given you some best practices. We've given you some ways to bring it up and it's really important that you hear us say that counsellor and therapists as well, to either help you have that conversation or help extract you if it comes to that point. Or speak to a family lawyer as well if you're at that point where you're like, I'm being controlled. I'm not allowed to have access, I'm genuinely concerned. There are more and more safeguards put in being put in place to protect you now, but it is about seeking help and knowing that is not appropriate. Of course, sometimes having a cheat sheet to help you practically so that you can both work together to remove the emotion is really helpful as well.

So yes, we've given you processes. Yes, we've given you three different questions, but if you want some practical things that maybe you could work through together as a couple, we're gonna put that in the download as well in the show notes as well. It's a download we've created called 10 Ways to Love Your Finances.

So whether you're a single gal and you're like, oh my gosh, I just want that for me, whether you're dating, whether you are in a long-term partnership, this might be another way that you can start to practically move your money forward together. So enjoy.

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