Uncensored Money Season Eight: The Financial Ick — 10 Money Habits That Are an Instant Turn-Off (And What They Really Reveal)

Melissa Browne: Ex-Accountant, Ex-Financial Advisor, Ex-Working Till I Drop, Now Serial Entrepreneur & Author, Financial Wellness Advocate, Living a Life by Design | 18/06/2026

Show Notes

You know the ick. That tiny thing someone does that you just can't unsee. Turns out money has them too.

This week Mel and Lawsie rate 10 financial icks out of 10 and then, because they can't help themselves, they flip every single one over to show what it's actually hiding underneath. Because here's the thing: nobody does the icky money stuff because they're a bad person. They do it because of a story.

It's funny. It's a little bit savage. And it ends somewhere that actually matters.

In this episode:

• The Calculator at Dinner — boundaries vs the surprise audit
• The Bargain Brag — why a discount quietly hijacks your brain
• The $40 Afterpay — how the drip-feed hides the price
• The Points Evangelist — who's really winning the points game (spoiler: not you)
• The Leased Lifestyle — why real wealth is mostly invisible
• "I Forgot My Wallet" (again) — avoidance vs cashflow shame
• "Investing is just gambling" — fear dressed up as principle
• "I'm just hopeless with money" — the badge so many women wear, and why it isn't true
• "I've made 7 figures in my business" — revenue vs profit, and the numbers women aren't asked enough
• "My partner handles all of that" — the one Mel will go to the wall on

Pick the one that stung the most. That's the one to start with. Not all ten. One.

Want more?

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Transcription

Mel: Lawsie do you have any financial icks?

Lawsie: Any what?

Mel: You know, the thing someone does and you just oooh

Lawsie: I mean I have that on all facets of life, not just finances.

Mel: Well, I guess the financial ick is instead of the way they chew Tony or or jog or breathe. That was me during perimenopause. It's the way they handle money. Yes, I imagine you have had a list. So today we're gonna rate them out of 10. And then because we can't help ourselves, we're gonna tell you.

Lawsie: Yes. Well, yes. I have a list. Okay.

Mel: What each one is actually hiding underneath, because here's the thing. Nobody does the icky money stuff because they're a bad person or they're bad with money. They do it because of a story. So let's bring the icks Law-Dog.

Lawsie: Brant, I'm ready.

Mel: Welcome back to Uncensored Money. I'm Mel, that's Lawsie, and today is the most fun and most judgmental we are legally allowed to be on this podcast. However, we're still gonna read out the ASIC warning because even though ASIC probably doesn't care that we're judging, we are going to talk about investing. So, as always, this podcast contains general information only. It doesn't take into account your personal circumstances, objectives, or needs we are an authorised representative RASK licensing where we are licensed to give general advice. And as always, please consider whether this information is appropriate for you and speak to a licensed financial advisor. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. So, Lawsie to set the scene. While Ick is a dating app thing.

You know, it's that tiny behavior that it flicks a swi flips a switch and you can't unsee it. Kind of like I remember when Tay Tae was dating Travis Kelsey and he made like he did this really dumb celebration thing and the camera panned to her and every woman in the world went, ⁓ she's just caught the ick. So it she's gone on to get engaged to him. So it's not just so you can't get past these, but instead it's identifying them and understanding why.

Where they've come from. So we're gonna borrow it for money today. But as I said at the beginning, this isn't a shame episode. Every single ick on this list is fear, shame, or a story someone was handed. And usually about money being someone else's job or being too hard or being too rude, rude to talk about. And we laugh because it's relatable, not because we're better. Trust me.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: But by the end, I guess the real we ick we want everyone to unlearn is the belief that money isn't their job. And to to try and see yourself in them and to find out, ⁓ okay, this is what I could be doing instead. So Lawsie, the rules of the game, because you know I'm monikering friends, which is a reference I also know that will be lost on you. So Monica used to say the rules are there to make the game more fun.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: That it that I just I love that. I embrace that. So how this is gonna work, I'm gonna read the ick. We're both gonna rate it out of 10. Fast gut reaction. And then I know, then we're gonna flip it. You know, what does that actually reveal and what's the the thing to do instead? So 10, Law-Dog let's go. Ick one, the calculator at dinner.

Lawsie: You have you embraced that, yes, you do embrace that. Rush on. All right. Sounds so sexy.

Mel: Reckon for me this is an eight point five. Like it's a hike for me.

Lawsie: So we're going, yeah, so the higher the number, the higher the ick. Yeah, okay.

Mel: Yeah. So what's yours? Someone gets out of calculator when the bill comes at dinner.

Lawsie: I think I'd have to go eight. That wasn't very rapid fire, was it? I like, No, I need the rules. Which what is our scale? But yes, eight.

Mel: You're eight two. And I guess wanna explain my ick. So it's not, ⁓ someone's just dividing it by six because there's six of us. So instead, I'm talking, you know, you've had a lovely dinner, it's with friends, it's been wine and good conversation, and then the bill arrives and someone pulls out their phone, opens the calculator, and works out that you owe $34.72 because you had the side of greens, and they had, they only had one of the bread from the bread basket, whereas you had two of the bread. So you know that's gonna I'm like. I at that point want to stab myself in the eye. And then the payment request comes through before you've even got to the car. Hi, I've just sent you a request for $4.20 for the bread. Like, I just can't.

Lawsie: Yeah. It is too too it's too much. It is too much. ⁓ and I but I think the problem there is not in its entire defence but there is something about people being open and sharing a bill and doing those things like a hundred percent. But I think it's when we're gonna get down to the nitty gritty of that that I'm like kind of detracts. Detracts a little from the dinner.

Mel: It's too much. Yeah. And I guess there's a difference between a system and a meltdown. Because I have 100% been in that position back in the day where I could not afford to go out. And what I would do is tell friends, you know, it's not about the $4.20 that you're asking extra. It's the anxiety about I don't know if I can afford this. Or it's that thing around fairness and maybe a fear of being the one getting taken advantage of because you don't drink and everyone else drinks.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: And you know, sometimes it's genuine scarcity where that person cannot absorb being $30 over from what they budgeted. So it's understanding that. And with all these icks, I want to look at the layer that sits underneath it for how why is the perfume behaving that way? And then what could you be doing instead so that you're not pissing off your friends, but also you're being heard.

So Lawsie, what do you think people could do instead?

Lawsie: Yeah. Well I think it's just having that conversation. You know, have that conversation before the dinner. Have it before the menu arrives and it's, you know, are we splitting this evenly or are we just paying our own way? ⁓ super easy question. Then people know. Everyone knows then. So if you've got the person that, you know, we all hear the stories, hopefully none of them are our own friends. ⁓ you know people that'll be or it's like, we're splitting it. Great. I'm gonna be getting the bougie one. I'm doing this and going over the top and spending beyond their means because they're like, well actually everyone else is helping pick up the tab for this. So it removes that issue. But also just removes this thing where if you're genuinely looking at it going, I really want to come out, I really want to see my friends, but I've only got 30 bucks that I can spend this week or I've got this. It's like it's just putting it out there instead of being that awkward thing at the end. And you're gonna enjoy your meal more anyway, because you're not gonna be stressed about it. When you get to the end, you're like, I've got to face this, how am I gonna do this? All of their things. So yeah, it's having just being open about it. At the start, from the get-go, it totally having boundaries and all those things is 100% better. But everyone's always gonna feel better when they're communicated. ⁓ up front, because it's the surprise at the end that gives the ek ick.

Mel: You're not gonna have that low level anxiety. Yeah. I can't agree more. ⁓ it's that loud budgeting. It's saying before you go, ⁓ I can't afford I'm I'm I'm dry July and I'm on a budget. ⁓ really saving up for this thing. ⁓ so I'm so happy to come. I just won't split the the alcohol. And I think everyone goes, Great, no problem. Like it's just making really clear. Yeah.

Lawsie: Yeah, everyone just knows from the up front. Yeah, and then it's just really casual, it's just there, but everyone knows the rules.

Mel: Yeah. Okay, ick number two, Law-Dog. The bargain brag, I'm calling this one. So it was 70% off. I basically had to, I saved money. I'm gonna give the bargain brag. I have done this as a joke. I'm probably gonna give it a five.

Lawsie: I have to go higher just because I was rolling my eyes as you said it, because I'm like, come on, people. So I mean I don't care what you spend your money on, obviously. So it can have a seven, but also, really? Feel my judgment.

Mel: Yeah, if you're being serious about it, I feel your judgment. And I guess it's, you know, for your seven, say it louder at the back with for people that are buying eleven candles they didn't need.

Lawsie: You did not save the money. You still spent it. Yes, it was discounted, but you still the money left your bank account, left your wallet. It's still a spend.

Mel: Exactly. And again, this one, the what's underneath this one is it's neurological, not moral. You know, because a discount, it's understanding that there is psychol psychology to sales. So a discount sticker gives your brain a genuine dopamine hit. So the deal becomes a reward separate from the thing itself. So you're not buying a jumper, you're buying a win. You're buying a dopamine hit. You're buying a ching-ching. And retailers know this, and that's the whole game. It's why Coles or Woolies one of them was caught out recently with their faking low prices and putting a special on it because they

know that if they do that you will spend more. So what can people do instead of the bargain brag Lawsie and instead of being sucked into that?

Lawsie: Definitely. Yeah, look, I think what it is is to go and just to think about it and reframe it in your own mind a little bit. So like a bargain for something that you didn't need is still full price for something that you didn't want. ⁓ you know, and potentially it's adopting that rule of twenty four hours on anything that's too good to pass up. So it's like sitting on it for twenty four hours before you go ahead and you buy it. Cause I'm all for a bargain. Like I love it. You love it. Like it's I think we all love it. We go, we're getting a win against the retailers. Like amazing. And we're getting, you know, bigger bang for our buck. But I think we've all been there. You know, I've done it where you, you know, going, Great, I'm getting these things that I need, need maybe

Mel: Yeah. Hmm, I love a bargain.

Lawsie: Could be questionable, use of word, but need. ⁓ and then you'll see the other thing that you go, I can add that in, and it's you know, only if we do this for five bucks or for twenty bucks, but it's still if it was something you were never gonna want or need, or any of those things and you're just adding in because you go, it's on sale. No, no, you've still spent the money.

Mel: Yeah it's cute. Girl math when it's look used like that in that term is not cute. So and I and I think I'll if we're gonna s if someone if if that wasn't the bargain brag and if it was called girl math, I would have given it a 9.5. So if we're gonna frame it as girl math, then it gets a big ick for me. ⁓ ick number three, the $40 Afterpay I'm giving this an 1200 out of ten.

Lawsie: Okay. Please step up onto your soapbox. I don't even need to weigh in on this one. Your twelve hundred just takes a cake. But yeah, it can be right up there, it's the ten. Because of course I'm gonna stick to the rules and I'm sticking to a score out of ten, so it's staying at ten. You can have your twelve hundred.

Mel: See what's yours. For me, splitting a $40 top into full payments of $10, like it's a mortgage, you know, an interest-free cardigan plan.

Lawsie: An interest free cardigan plan.

Mel: You know, I have feelings about this. Everyone knows about feelings about this. And I think it's because, as you know, women have been gaslit by three men who are now billionaires to spend more money and just been told, it's just a simple budgeting app, and we've believed it. And that framing, that drip feed is the the trick. So the four small payments don't change the price, they hide it. And they make, I can't afford it yet.

Lawsie: We all know.

Mel: Feel like, I can afford this now. And then they stack, so you're juggle juggling now six little fortnightly debits, and you actually have no idea what you've actually committed to. So the Ick isn't the person, the Ick is freaking Afterpay engineering to make an an overspend invisible. And by overspend, if you go to Afterpay's own website, they brag that you are spending fifty-four percent more when you use their product. Like that's just such an ick. Like that is an ick. And plus also go Google them, they're icky. So the end, I don't care. Come see what should we do instead? I'm stepping off my soapbox and walking away before I get sued.

Lawsie: ⁓ keep going. I feel like we just need to let it keep ranting. So I guess the test to apply to this instead if you're looking going, but you know, it is, you know, you bought into the market and it's understandable, like it's been designed for you to use it, ⁓ is that if you couldn't buy this twice, then you definitely can't afford to buy it once. And the other question is like, would you hand over 40 bucks in cash today for it? Because if you haven't got that and you can't do it.

Mel: Yeah. Yes.

Lawsie: Then don't go and buy that thing because you're still paying it. You're just spreading it over those four. So our advice, don't use it. Pay in for pay in full at the time and also just question it to go, do I actually need it? Can I, you know, am I training every dollar out my bank account to do this? So maybe it's not the right thing.

Mel: Yeah, if you need four instalments for it to become a yes, it's a no. Like, easy. That's that's your girl math. ⁓ ick number four, the points evangelist. So, you know, the person that has restructured their entire financial life around credit cards to get points. I mean, I'm giving this a ten out of ten as well. Like high ick. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Lawsie: And she continues.⁓ I have to go nine.

Mel: You're pretty disciplined though, so I can see that you would give it less. I will give I will give a business points evangelist, because I am a business points evangelist. I'll give that a zero out of ten. But an individual, I'll give it a ten.

Lawsie: Yeah, well I'll go nine only because I think for the most part people shouldn't have credit cards. Like we know that and I know we'll talk about this now anyway. For some people though, they are this and they have done it so well, but they are absolutely in the minority. It's not even something I know we say that I'm very disciplined and structured and all of their things, I still wouldn't do it. ⁓ you know, I don't have a credit card. All of those things I look at it sometimes and go, and then I

Mel: Yes. I would say five percent. Yeah, interesting.

Lawsie: If I want to fly somewhere, I'll just pay the flight. I will spend my time and shop around and get a good flight. And yes, yeah, for all of those things. But yeah, I think there's some people that have done incredibly well about it, incredibly well with it, but they need to be so disciplined. And that means that for most of us it's not the right thing. So

Mel: Yeah. It's not. And I guess for me, where I get really no, I it's it's not an ick, it's an anger. It's angry. Because you know, a someone and often it's influencers. I've basically flew to Bali for free. No. First of all, you were paid for that trip, probably, because you're doing a ad. But also you flew to Bali probably for business points, because this is your business, so you're not overspending for your business. And for everyone else trying to do it, you flew to Bali for the annual fee, plus everything you bought to get there, which was an overspend. And I guess it's the fantasy of beating the house. And I absolutely look at this as ⁓ sorry. I absolutely look at this as a casino. So this is, you know, if I was to say to you, do you think the banks are benevolent institutions that exist in order to give you free stuff? No. If I think of a bank, I think of it like a I don't I mean other than some banks that I actually genuinely think are positive, like, you know, Bank of Australia jumps to mind, maybe I and G, but like little men in blue suits angrily Pokemon ⁓ making billions of dollars of profit. And they don't make those billions of dollars of profit from your lazy little one dollar or five dollar a month at bank account fee, they make that profit from your mortgage and from your credit cards. So that rewards exist because on average, points programs make the issuer money not just through annual fees, but because of your highest spending. And the research has shown that high spending is about 18%. So that's done in Bradstreet research. So

No point system will beat that. None. We've got a case study on this that we'll put in the show notes if you're curious. So the ones, as we said, genuinely winning are rare. They're disciplined. They're not overspending. Or they're business owners, because I'm not going to overspend with OfficeWorks to get those points, but I'm going to collect them as I'm already spending a lot in business. So yeah, that's that is my cut up you thing. Don't have the lie of the points.

Lawsie: Yeah, and have a look at it too. Like I know we had someone send something through yesterday about a particular credit card that was linked to a particular ⁓ supermarket and and they had done the sort of the fine rating on they're like, this is just ridiculous. Like I can't believe that people would do this because at the bottom line, like the summary of it was that basically you had to have spent 12k on that card. And then you'd get, I think it was $750 worth of groceries or whatever it was. Like so that's kind of just highlighting that difference for you there. With that thing of like people go, yeah, awesome, I'm gonna be buying these things anyway, I'll put it on the card, not realizing that that card itself is encouraging them to overspend, because we don't feel that pain when we're tapping it. But also, what are you actually getting for it? If you're spending a whole lot more money to get this free thing, it's probably not free.

Mel: Yeah. It's not free. And it's interesting you said that we don't feel pain. So th there's a research paper that was done that showed exactly like that. So they had they've got if the pe research paper's super interesting. So they're actually MRI.

Pictures inside the research paper where they took photos of people's brains essentially as they were spending to see how it reacted. And when we use credit, not only does the insular region where we feel pain not lighter, but the dopamine section goes nuts. So it's I'm not feeling pain and I'm getting pleasure. Like it is quite literally loop spending. So it is just about putting that friction back in and realizing that the points aren't worth it because we're gonna overspend. So, number five, Law-Dog, the least lifestyle. So the person who looks like money, the car, the bag, we're doing so well. ⁓ give yeah, I give this a 10, too. I had someone send me something on Insta today, one of my good friends, Michelle Cox, and it was a woman who was girl bossing and had like a we create girl boss empires, and she was like, this my rent is X amount per month. my overseas trips are 30,000. My we go out and we spend $2,000 a month on dates. We spend this much on all it was was spend. There was not a single invest. There was not a single save. There was not a single anything that was subs like that was building. I was just horrified by it.

And I guess the reason you and I are giving this such high numbers is because we've seen behind so many people's financials when we were financial advisors. And we know that often the people that look like they have it together are not the wealthiest. And the people that don't look like it have it together are the wealthiest.

Lawsie: Yeah. And I think we see like we've seen that obviously because we're dealing people's money and taxes and all of their things. But even in like my husband's always perpetually amazed to be like, I met so and so at the race track and you'd feel like they had not a dollar to their name. Car racing. Yeah.

Mel: Yes. Racetrack as in ⁓ like car racing, so spending a lot of money. Yeah.

Lawsie: On cars and things, but they you know someone's walking around and they've got, you know, thongs on from who knows when, the holiest of shorts and shirts and just look, you know, you go, really? And he's like, yeah, but that person, they've got it. Like they, you know, it's almost like this is the facade and it's the opposite of what we're sort of talking about where they look hobo and that they have absolutely, do you know, don't have two dollars to rub together, yet they are absolutely loaded.

Mel: Yeah. And I guess my thing, I remember watching a series of maths or a reality TV show a couple of years ago, and I was surprising. I was stunned that every single woman on there had a designer bag. And whether it was real or not, they wanted you to think that they were carrying a designer bag, and often more than one. And it occurred to me that when I was watching that, that these women were it was all about what that was saying about them. You know, for a guy it might be a watch is the equivalent.

Lawsie: Surprising. Okay.

Mel: So it's rarely about the thing and it's it's being seen as someone who's made it. Often by people who either were surrounded I think it's interesting. It's either you were surrounded by it, so people so I need to keep up because that's what I'm known for, or you didn't have it, and so therefore you want to show that I have it now. ⁓ but I I think I feel really sad for people who have this because there's a real like tender underneath it where it's that, you know, there's there's a hurt yeah, it's it's a but what do people think of me? And I would hate to live my life thinking that. ⁓ because my like and I've said this a lot before, I like stuff. Like I I like stuff.

But my secret that I don't that not a lot of people know is that my husband and I could very happily sell everything tomorrow and go live in a little rental house together and have nothing because we are genuinely happy together and with who we are. Like it just we just don't need stuff. ⁓ and would I like to own that teeny tiny little house? Of course, because then I'm not gonna be as stressed. But we just don't need all the trappings.

And I guess my question for people that are caught in this is because I think this is the opposite of real wealth. It's developing things people can't see rather than things they can see. You know, I people can't see how much you have in shares. They can't see your real wealth. They can only see like your fake wealth. ⁓ so it's my question is what what would you have if no one could see?

And I think the answer to that would be just a whole lot less. Yeah. So Lawsie, I guess what would if someone is caught in that, what could they do instead?

Lawsie: Yeah, look I think I mean there's definitely obviously confronting the issues around that and why you're feeling that need. ⁓ I'm clearly not the the greatest emotional person with that, so I'll bring it back to the practical, but I do think that that is something that is important. ⁓ yeah, a hundred percent.

Mel: Yeah. And that might be speaking to a therapist if it is, you know, you and and I know I've had a lot of therapy, I've talked about that a lot before. Because you can have that gaping hole and be trying to shove stuff into it, I get ⁓ yeah.

Lawsie: Yeah. So I think instead like it would be looking at tracking your own net worth, not the net stuff. And so what we mean by that is what do you actually own in terms of assets and investments rather than how many pairs of shoes and handbags do you have? ⁓ because the question shouldn't be, does it look like I'm doing well? It's like, what if I sold everything, paid off everything, what's left? Because that's actually much more important to you now and in the future than the handbag that you're carrying.

Mel: Yeah. I once said ⁓ you can't afford a $5,000 handbag if you can't afford to put $5,000 in it. Buckets. You just can't. Okay, second half. So the ick number six. I forgot my wallet again. do you know what? If this was a good friend and if I I would probably just laugh at it and feel like it swings and roundabouts. So for that, I probably would give it a four. But if it's my brother-in-law. This like w I would give him a nine and a half. Actually I give him a ten. What about you?

Lawsie: Yeah, this is a funny one because I it's a thing that I hear, but I don't think I've ever seen it. So to me it's not so much a thing. yeah, but I also think like if it was happening, I'd be, yeah. I'd be it it's gotta be sitting up there a little bit hype. But again, like you said, I think it does really depend on who it actually is. So yeah.

Mel: Yeah. ⁓ my brother in law used to we if we were up f with the fan, I could th Tony and I used to make a game of it. Like we would know when we were up to the point where the bill's coming because he would walk up and go to the toilet. And Tone and I would just like we'd almost try and time it.

And because he just expected my dad to pay. So it wasn't I forgot my wallet, it's I'm gonna ghost. Like it's like another version of it. And I guess it's a pattern that becomes ick. Like for us, it used to be funny, but if I guess if it was a friend, if it really annoyed me, I would just have a conversation with him. Yeah. But I guess for if I looked at him, I just feel like a real friend wouldn't.

Lawsie: Yeah. Next level. Hundred percent. I think a friend wouldn't do that. Like a real friend wouldn't do that. Like that's where I find it's we can all joke about it.

Mel: They're gonna be scatty versus actually being malicious. Yeah. Yeah. So for for me, for my if I looked at my brother-in-law and his behavior, it was totally just that expectation that my parents would pay, which is something that he continues to have. ⁓ so I guess it is just knowing, I guess, for it's knowing it and then choosing how you're gonna react. So for us, it was a we're just gonna split it equally and when you come back you'll pay. Or if someone else is picking up the tab and often Tony and I would go, Fuck it, we're just picking up the tab just because we just couldn't be bothered. ⁓ so it it is again just figuring out how you're gonna do with it before you go into that situation. ⁓

Maybe even reminding playfully that person, hey, don't forget. Or even saying as you before before you go in, don't forget to bring your wallet. I know you forgot it last time. Or hey, just checking where splitting this tab. If someone does the ghost where they get up when the bill arrives. So I just like we talked earlier about the person with the bill, I think this is a great one to bring up earlier as well. And if they or if they just continue and you know they're hopeless, go for a walk instead. Just don't go somewhere where it's gonna cost money. Like genuinely. ⁓ ick number seven, Law-Dog, investing is just gambling or ⁓ only people with money can invest?

Yeah, I I know this is a ruin. It may it kinda makes me more cranky or frustrated. I I would give it a nine for the frustration that I feel. But I understand it. Yeah.

Lawsie: Hundred percent, hundred percent that I get where people are coming from, but I like I wanna go at high because I want people to understand that actually that's not true and all of the things, yeah.

Mel: And the ick is an a frustration ick because we're just, it's like, come on. So I guess what we're saying is it's like fear wearing the costume of principal. Investing's gambling, or only people can ⁓ with money can invest. That's either you're not understanding or fear. And I guess the person's usually picturing like frinance bros, or they've been in those conversations where they've walked away overwhelmed. ⁓ where it's not just long term, one share, one regular amount, one platform, like we've talked here many times. But calling it gambling kind of makes the fears sound like you're smarter than them. ⁓

Lawsie: Yeah, it's putting it down. It's like, that's why I don't do it because it's that yeah.

Mel: Yeah. Or only people with money can invest. It's almost that that's why I have permission to self-select out. Because I don't have money. ⁓ so yeah. So Lawsie, if someone's sort of nodding along going, I hear myself in that, what would you say instead? Exactly. Well how would you reframe it?

Lawsie: Yeah. Yeah, it's using that as the excuse, yeah. Okay. Melalosia talking to me.

Yeah, look, I think it's just understanding that the real gamble is doing nothing. So yes, you might go, investing's gambling and all of those things, but actually you're gambling by not doing anything. ⁓ and even then maybe it's not really a gamble because at the end of the day, like inflation will absolutely shrink your cash over that time. Like it's just your yeah, so the money that you have and that you think, I'm saving and I'm doing these things is not going to be worth the same amount in the future. And the way to you know get around that or to help hedge that is to consider investing and doing things like that and you don't have to like some people love being you know I'm gonna pick this stock and this share and da da da doesn't have to be that complicated like it is literally as we as you just said before like you can just have one ETF.

Mel: No we are not fans of that for most people.

Lawsie: That you're investing in, you know, hopefully a diversified one, but it's one of those ones where you can make it as simple or as complicated as you want. ⁓ and it really at the end of the day doesn't matter as long as you're actually doing it and not hiding behind that of it's gambling or it's you know only people with money can invest. So it's just start with yeah, that one thing. And for you, if it's like them, just one become more educated about it, and two, then actually just start. It's one small consistent board. Step is going to get you miles in front of waiting for this perfect plan or for when you do have money because those things mean you're just gonna keep pushing the can down the road and not necessarily start. So, obviously, this is general advice, all of their things we're not saying go and start investing today. Like, if you've got debt, you need to look at that first bad debt that is. If you've got you know, if you don't have a buffer and some cash there, so in case something happens, you can rely on that, then you obviously want to consider that as well. But if investing is that thing that's sort of rolling around in your mind, you go, I should be doing that, but then you also hear yourself sort of thinking or saying, you know, the icks that we've mentioned of about being gambling or not having enough money, like now is the time for you to really address that and ⁓ yeah, consider if investing is going to be right for you and how you could actually just get started.

Mel: Yeah. And I really enjoyed in our Financial Momentum Club, which is the ⁓ Club for Alumni after MFAP, we had better share beta shares talk this week ⁓ to the gr to everyone. And I really like ⁓ that ⁓ the beta shares person, ⁓ my gosh, I'm having a seniors moment for her name. Nicola, thank you. That being the very lovely Nicola and she was very great.

Lawsie: She was very good.

Mel: She was so good. ⁓ she's someone had a question and they said, ⁓ look, I feel like I need to grow up and maybe get more than one ETF and she went, Why? And I loved that to hear other people, other finance professionals saying that too. Why? Like if you have one and this person did one diversified, broad based ETF, that can be enough. Yeah, you might choose to add more on, but you can invest a dollar into that. Like it doesn't have to be large amounts and it can just be one investment. ⁓ three to go, Law-Dog. We are on the home straight. So ick number eight, I am just hopeless with money. Ugh. You could just hurt it. I wish you could see our faces. We just both went, ugh. It's not an ick. Again, I'm gonna call this a frustration ick of like nine. Yeah. What about you?

Lawsie: I just want people, not even with that, I'm just like, stop, stop saying this. Like, it is Yeah. And money is gonna underpin absolutely everything in life. Even if you want to live a simple life, money still underpins that. And so you

Mel: Yes. Yeah. 'Cause if you keep saying that you're gonna believe it. And I guess that's where my ick comes in.

Lawsie: No one has to go and be like full finance. No one's saying you've got to go and be Warren Buffett. Like I mean, you and I aren't Warren Buffett. Like it's you don't have to be amazingly good, but you've got to get an understanding with it and apply what you need so you are making sure that you're looking after you and not just going, I'm just hopeless and deferring it. Yeah.

Mel: Yeah. And I think that's where I give it such a high ick because it's almost said, like the people that say this, it's it's almost like it's worn with a badge of honor. Like this is my personality, I'm bad with money. And and it's often said overwhelmingly, like I'm over and really they're not saying I'm hopeless with money, they're saying I'm overwhelmed by money. And it's just a it's a skills gap that got mislabeled as a personality.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: And there is a whole generation of men and women who were never taught this and somehow made to feel it was their fault for not knowing. So that I'm hopeless is kind of a shield, a defensive shield as well. You know, if I've already declared I'm bad at it, I can't fail at it. It keeps me safe from trying and it keeps me safe from being stuck. So really want people to hear that and to realize that that's not serving you.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: So Lawsie, what could they swap or what could they do instead? Is if this was someone who maybe recognized himself in this ick.

Lawsie: Yeah, look, I think one it is stop. I'm just when you stop using that word stop. The stop using that word hopeless, rather. and to reframe it and change it in your head to go, I haven't learned this yet. Like, for most people, the the fundamentals of money are quite simple. Money comes in, money goes out, and what we want is hopefully that the money going out is less than what's coming in. So you've got some money to save and to do things. Like, that's pretty like everyone can get that concept, everyone. So there's no need to think that you're hopeless with money. So I think it's just you might not have learned all of the things, you might not have learned about investing, you might not understand good, bad, and okay, debt. That's okay. Like it's just acknowledging where you're at and going, I haven't learned this yet, or I don't feel confident with money yet, like yet being that key word. Because then you're leaving that door open to actually think about what is it that you can start to learn, and then just to get super practical with it and to be

Mel: Yeah.

Lawsie: Okay. Figure out a number, like go and see what's in your super balance, go and see what's in your bank account. What's the interest rate being charged on your mortgage? Like start to get familiar with the numbers. You don't have to remember them all and just be ⁓ no, it's gonna audit you on this. But it's just bringing that awareness to your to your finances, understanding what you actually spend. just check, just one thing, and then from that, like just make it a habit. Every week you're just gonna start to go, okay. I want to get across that number, I want to understand more about my super, whatever it is.

Mel: Yeah.

Lawsie: Set yourself that you know weekly challenge to be keep doing things because that way you are doing stuff. Hopeless people don't do that. ⁓ And remember that you're not like just just stop that. Stop that word.

Mel: Yeah. And I love to just do one thing. You know, I'm learning French at the moment and it's just adding more words as you go. And I I Abs and I actually say to myself a lot, I'm so freaking hopeless at this, and I won't speak it. ⁓ but it's it's that's actually not serving me. Like saying to yourself that you're hopeless with something is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I I I'm such a fan of that word yet. because I can actually speak more French than I realise enough to get me around. And if I put on my stupid French voice, it's like, salute chemapel Melissa, comma savo. Like my accent's terrible. ⁓

Lawsie: Now, there's no stopping her.

Mel: Things that you know it's it's good enough. ⁓ so and that's not gonna affect me financially, but this will be. So the second last one, ick number nine, this is a massive one for me. I've made my business is ⁓ turned over $14 million last year, or my business is a $700,000 business. This might seem you might go, huh?

⁓ isn't that a wonderful thing? No, I give this eleven out of ten. Yeah. What about you, Lord? You're probably not as affected by this. I feel scarred by this.

Lawsie: Yes, you do, and you need to explain why I think. I'm not as affected by it. ⁓ but I've certainly not, you know, haven't been playing in that same space for it. And I think because yeah, to me I think it's obviously it's a counterbrain. I'm like, hey, you can say whatever you want. I'm gonna actually look at your figures and see what you are doing from a profit point of view rather than just your revenue. So yeah, what why are you so scarred with it? Yeah.

Mel: Yeah. And that's exactly why 'cause it gave. That's why it's giving me such an ick. So when I was part of EO, entrepreneurs organization, it had a revenue target that you had to hit in order to be part of it. And it was 80% blokes. And almost always, few if we were at a learning thing or a networking thing, they would come up and go, hi, I'm Steve, my business is ABC and my revenue is three million dollars. Hi, I'm Joe, my business is XYZ and my revenue is $10 million. Hi, I'm Pete, my business is KYT, and my revenue is $4 million.

Like, and I just used to it used to drive me wild because essentially I felt like they were all saying, look how big my penis is. So I would in return say to these lovely men, because it was mainly men that said it, Well, what's your profit? And I started saying, how interesting, what's your profit? And often they would just look at me and walk away.

So there's no way they were gonna tell me. I reckon, and I started saying it regularly, of just say I said it a hundred times, I reckon five people would give me the profit figure. And that's because I know that a lot of the times their profit was shot. But you didn't need to get into EO because of profit. You just needed to get in to EO because of revenue. So it just, you know, they're

I think the thing that's important to understand is your profit is your vanity. Sorry, your sales are your vanity. Your profit is your sanity, your cash flow is your your reality. And I think men in particular are too hung up on revenue, but women aren't hung up enough. Not on revenue, but on the numbers. So I remember I was ⁓ at a little black dress dinner many years ago, and they asked what was the thing we were working towards this year, and

Lawsie: Generally. Yeah.

Mel: Women gave such beautiful sanitized answers and then it came to me and I thought, screw it. And I went, well, I'm really chasing a million bucks revenue in my business at the moment. This was a long time ago. ⁓ and honestly, some of them looked at me like I was, ooh, wow, like I just flashed them. And not boobs, because I feel like women can cope with boobs, like I just flashed my badge at them. ⁓ Lawsie's face when I said that. ⁓ But I think

Lawsie: I'm just horrified by all of this. Can I leave at this point?

Mel: Again, it's the men need to talk more about profit and cash flow, etc. If you're going to talk revenue, women just need to talk about all of it and be okay with talking about the numbers. ⁓ and it's I run something called Mel's Secret Business Club. ⁓ it's open now. We only open the doors once a year. Last year I took 10 people, this year I'm taking 40. ⁓ more than ⁓ a third of the number of the seats are already gone. And we talk about what are your goals? And not I wanna grow. No, I w I wanna know your goals. Like let's be real. Like we talk numbers, we talk all those things because

I don't believe, particularly when times are tough, and they are tough for business owners at the moment, you can't wing it like you might have been able to do when times are good. You need to know the numbers in your business. And you also need to know the activity that are driving those numbers. So this one I'm really passionate about for both how I see men and women behave in business, and I think they both are, they both behave badly.

They both give me the egg for different reasons. Rich over.

Lawsie: Yes.

Mel: So the final Ick Law Dog, ready? ⁓ my partner handles all of that. 12 and a thousand out of ten.

Lawsie: Yeah. Twelve in a thousand. Wow, we've really Well I have you know I've got to stick to the rules, so I'm gonna go ten. But it's not like I it's again that type of one where I look at it and I go, if for some people I know that they. Go, it's it's lovely. Like we've got our established roles, right? Like it, you know, in my house, of course I'm looking after the finances. My husband's looking after cars and bikes. Like it just there's no point me crossing over there. If I was relying on him to do anything with numbers, he still wouldn't have figured out how to open Excel. Like we everyone's gonna have their own ⁓ place.

Mel: Yes. Yeah. ⁓ poor Adam.

Lawsie: You know it's true. But we're all gonna have our own strengths and weaknesses, right? ⁓ and I think in a great partnership, that's you know how you do end up being a little bit default. But I think the problem with this is while I'm not gonna go and fix a car, I understand the basics of the things and I know in the same way that yes, I am doing the finances, but it's very much a two-way conversation. So I'm leading it, but we're both on the same page and we both have access to all of the numbers and the figures and the accounts and all of those things. Where this one is obviously can be a little bit problematic, is where one does end up, you know, having all the control and the other is completely in the dark. And you know, people go, I know, but that's lovely.

Mel: Yeah. Yes.

Lawsie: I'm like, ⁓ but it's not like it is potentially leaving you exposed. So

Mel: Not yeah and we've seen this way too many times when we've worked with people financially because it's just to be really clear it's not about tr not trusting your person you can adore them you could trust them completely and still know where your freaking money is like those things are not in conflict and if my partner was saying to me babe you don't need to worry about that I've got this that would be a massive red flag and we did a a whole episode on called financial coercive control last week. And I re if your partner's saying that to you, I want you to go and listen to that. Because that's a real red flag for me. Because handing over all your financial knowledge is an intimacy, it's risk. Like that's not a loving act of you view by your partner to say this to say this. This is risky. Not because your partner is necessarily plotting anything, but because life happens. You know, the very ⁓ incredible Ash, Ashley, who's ⁓ Yellow Falcon's her business, who's one of the sponsors of Her Wealth Her Way this year and has been through MFAP, was on the stage for the real stories last year at the conference. She talks about how she was pregnant with triplets and her partner passed away, and suddenly she's having to be good at money. You know, life happens, whether it's illness, accidents, separation, death. Never mind the fact that women outlive their partners. So eight the stats are that 80% of women will die alone because we're outliving our partners. You know, women are wildly overrepresented in the financial fallout of divorce and poverty in old age. So the ick isn't the trust the powerlessness hiding behind it that you can't see for me is where the ick sits. So Lord dog, if because both of us have partners that could say this, but we won't allow them to. So what would you

Lawsie: Yeah. Talking of control.

Mel: Yeah, no, but as in like we drag them in and say, you will be involved in this. 'Cause that's what it that that's what I think a loving partnership is. ⁓ so what do you think it should be instead?

Lawsie: I think it's just making sure that if like if you pretended that your partner wasn't there and you had to run everything for a month, say, could you do it? Like, do you know where the money is? Do you have, you know, do you know the logins? It's not even necessary that your partner is hidden it from you. You might just not have never known. Or you did know it back in the day and you've since forgotten about it because you don't have to do it. So I think it's looking at all of that to go, actually, do I know where everything is? Do I know where both of our supers are? Do we know where, you know, what bank accounts we have, what debts we have, the size of those, you know, mortgages, all of those things, and being able to access it. and just so you

Mel: Hm, what investments we have. Yeah.

Lawsie: You're not locked out because life, life happens. Like you don't know what that is. And knowing, like, and just sort of to put that in your mind that it's like knowing where your money is isn't betrayal. It's not anything like that. It's actually kindness to your future self because you don't know what's going to happen. ⁓ so yeah, I think it's just, yeah, it's so important. Yes, you don't necessarily have to be doing all of the things.

But you still need to be involved and know where to get that information if you need it. Like in so many aspects of life, it's that's that thing of like, yeah, I might not have to be an expert in it, but I know where to go to get info if I need, if I'm not well, I know to go to the doctor or I know that I go to this specialist for that. Those kind of things, it's exactly the same with your finances.

Mel: Yeah. And I think it's also remembering we've had chats before where like the research consistently shows women are better investors than men. So if we are defaulting some of these things because we think our partner's better at it, chances are they're not. And that's where the research is really strong around women invest better because we have less self-confidence, because we are investing in a one broad-based index. So maybe it's having conversations to say, hey, I want to run like I want 80% to be in something like that.

And then twenty percent happy for you and us to play, but you know, with that core satellite approach. Like it's the more you know, the more you can be involved with great conversations. But yeah, I can't agree more. Yes, we've had that. Yep. Yeah.

Lawsie : And your partner might actually be relieved by it. Like I think we've had conversations where there has been that default where it's the, you know, the husband or the male partner is the one that's been in control and they've taken that on almost as a default thing, as a way of, yeah, the man has to look after the finances and she's so busy and she's happy defaulting it all. And then suddenly when you know the wife or the ⁓ partner gets involved and they're suddenly, my god, like I don't have to be doing this on my own. So sometimes we fall into these default roles and default sort of patterns and ways of managing things, finances and other. ⁓ and it's about realizing actually, no, your partner might actually really be relieved to not have all of that stress and pressure on themselves. So, you know, having that conversation and being able to share it or at least to figure out who it sits with best or, you know, break it up. It might be that you do some of it and your partner does some of it. Like it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Yeah.

Mel: Yeah. And you get together once a month and talk about it. Yeah. And like to that point, we ha I can think of Lisa Inside that was in side MFAP that's told her story before where that's exactly what her partner said to her. thank God. ⁓ because this has just been so much holding this all on my own. like it's just it's a gift to be able to do it together. So that is our list. And if you saw yourself in a couple of them, good.

Lawsie: Yeah.

Mel: You know, the point of this episode was not to make you caught get caught out, but actually to be able to do something with them.

Lawsie :Yeah, definitely. And every one of the you know, every one of those came back to the same a few things. Like it's fear, it's shame, it's this story someone had you, like there's something underlying it as to why it's there, so

Mel:Yeah. Absolutely. Every single one. And it's putting a structure and something else to do instead. Because the real ick underneath all ten is the belief that money is someone else's job, the accountant's job, partner's job, future you's job. It's not, it's yours. And the second you figure that out, half of these stop being icks and stop being things you're quietly sorting out.

So my our advice is pick the one that stung the most. Pick the one that you went, ugh, I really feel scene. That's the one to start with so you're not overwhelmed. And let us know how you go.

 

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